Rita Black: [00:00:00] If your eyes burn, sting, feel dry or get blurry after screen time, this episode is for you. Dry eye disease is often driven by everyday habits like staring at screens, reduced blinking, and even common makeup choices. And many people don’t realize the signs until symptoms become hard to ignore. Today I am joined by Dr. Pam Theriot who shares a simple self-test for dry eye, the biggest triggers she sees, and her practical prepare, perform, preserve framework to protect your eyes in a screen heavy world. This conversation is clear, empowering and full of small shifts that can make a real difference over time. So grab your reading glasses and come on.

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And not only have I helped thousands of people over the past 20 years. Achieve long-term weight mastery. I am also a former weight struggler, carb addict and binge eater, and after two decades of failed diets and fad weight loss programs, I lost 40 pounds with the help of hypnosis. Not only did I release all that weight, I have kept it off for 25 years.

Enter the Thin Thinking Podcast where you too will learn how to remove the mental roadblocks that keep you struggling. [00:02:00] I’ll give you the thin thinking tools, skills, and insights to help you develop the mindset you need, not only to achieve your ideal weight. But to stay there long term and live your best life.  Sound good? Let’s get started.

Hello? Hello? Hello? And come on in. Oh gosh. I hope you are feeling great. You know, I remember that Laura Spring, that Laura Engles Wilder story. I’m just thinking about it right now ’cause I’m thinking about spring cleaning. We have been cleaning everything out this last week.

, we are cleaning out our basement. We are cleaning out our shed. It’s spring cleaning time and I remember back in, I think it was one of the little house books, I think it was like on the shores of Silver Lake. One of those, no, I can’t remember, but they, the girls, , ma and pa had gone away and the girls took all the furniture [00:03:00] out of the house and literally just scrubbed and cleaned everything.

And , you know, when I was reading at the time, I was like, oh my God, that just sounds like it, such a chore. But I don’t know. I love it now. I love just getting in there and just getting things, , emptied out. You know, my husband likes. You know, storage and I like purging. So when I get my chance to clean out all the stuff that, when I can convince him to , you know, let me get in there and get everything out of there.

He loves to hold onto stuff, boy. I am telling ya. Anyway. , and I’ve also, I don’t know, I seem to be hypnotizing my husband, but I have also gotten him to agree. To do swing dance lessons with me. We did that when we first met, , you know, a zillion years ago. That was one of our sort of dating rituals. We went and, , swing dancing.

In fact, , the night he proposed, [00:04:00] you know, we were both living in New York City and, , we had finished our swing dance lessons and he invited me for dinner at. The top in the rainbow room at the top of the Rockefeller Plaza. I think that’s where that is. And they had a revolving dance floor and a swing band, and we danced and we had a great time.

And at the end of the evening he proposed, isn’t that romantic? It was so sweet. , so anyway, even though I didn’t say yes at the moment, I was like, can I think about that? Oh, he’ll never let me live that down. But anyway, , yeah, so my husband’s been very agreeable lately. Don’t know why, but I, I’m taking full advantage of it.

And we are going to take swing dance lessons on Thursday nights with, , another couple, which I think will be super fun. I have, , one request for you. Before I dive in. , I have a request. If you can please leave us a review. , why [00:05:00] would do, do you want me to give you a review, Rita? Well, there’s many, many reasons.

One is, , leaving a review. Actually, the main reason is it helps us get ranked and why that is helpful for you is the better our ranking, , the better the guests we can bring onto our show. Speaking of guests, we have an awesome one today, which is Dr. Pam Terio, who is an eye specialist in Louisiana. And in 2018, Dr.

Terio published a book Alleviate Dry Eye as a Guide for Patients, and in 2021. She was appointed to the Tear Film and Ocular Surface Society, and in 2025, she delivered an editor’s pick award-winning TEDx talk titled, seeing Clearly in a Screen Filled World, three Tips to Preserve your Vision. She lectures and publishes [00:06:00] extensively about ocular surface diseases, so please help me.

Welcome to the podcast, Dr. Pam Theriot .

Well welcome, ,

Dr. Pam Terio to the Then Thinking Podcast. It’s, it’s really lovely to have you here.

Dr. Pam Theriot: Thanks for having me, Rita.

Rita Black: I’m really looking forward to our conversation on eye health. I think a lot of our listeners, , I, including me, are. Curious about how they can take better care of their eyes as we age, and especially as we are on our computers all day long.

, it it’s very helpful. And so I’m excited to learn from you. , but before, I would love to learn a little more about you and what Drew drew you towards helping people in this way towards becoming a doctor, , an a, an ophthalmologist, correct.

Dr. Pam Theriot: I’m an optometrist. Yes.

Rita Black: Okay, an optometrist. So

Dr. Pam Theriot: yes, I’ve wanted to be an optometrist since I was 12 years old and I [00:07:00] got my first pair of glasses, and I think we’ve all had that moment where you get our new prescription from the, the eye doctor and we put them on and we say to ourselves, oh my goodness, I didn’t know that the sky was so blue that the birds were so clear, or that I could see the leaves on the trees.

And I, I had that moment as a child and I thought to myself, what. A way to live my life, to spend every day helping people see better. And, , I, it was in my heart since then, and that’s, I went to college with that idea and now today I’m an eye doctor, so it’s a dream come true.

Rita Black: That is amazing. I love it when people are able to, , you know, follow through on their passions.

. And so now, what made you decide, or I, I know you, you have sort of a, some specialties with regards to, , how people take care of their eyes. How did this come about? Like how did you start to notice things about the [00:08:00] computer screens and makeup like.

Dr. Pam Theriot: Right. So I am a dry eye specialist, which means that I take care of people who have red eyes that are red and they sting and burn.

Usually their vision fluctuates throughout the day. And this, there’s mo many causes of dry eye disease and , a lot of them are revolve around our lifestyle. So the fact that as women, we put cosmetics on our eyes, they stay on our for 12 to. The ingredients in those cosmetics have a profound effect on the way our eyes work, and so I’m a proponent of using eye safe cosmetics.

The other thing that we do all day long these days is stare at our screens. And the fact that we’re staring at our screens so much means that our eyes aren’t blinking in a regular manner. When we look at our computer screens, we blink about a third as many at times as we would if you and I were just sitting in conversation.

, and that that [00:09:00] third less blinking over. Days and days and hours and hours and decades of time can really have an impact on the way that the oil glands inside of our function. And they sit down as we’re not blinking as regularly. The oil solidifies in these glands and doesn’t come out onto our eyes, , as it should to coat our eyes with nutrients and to protect it from dehydrating.

And so I’ve come up with pla plans for, for people to use to help them, , support their eyes throughout the day so that their vision will last them a lifetime

Rita Black: is something. So with dry eye, how do, how would somebody know if it, they have dry eye versus like tired eyes?

Dr. Pam Theriot: Exactly. So the, the problem with dry eye disease is that people poo pooh it.

They have symptoms throughout the day. They go, oh, my eyes were stinging and burning. I must have used them too [00:10:00] many hours yesterday. Oh, I overdid it. And they, they blame circ stances on what’s actually going on in their eyes. So I have a really simple way for you to, , assess. Whether or not, , your eyes are dry and, and there’s ways that we do it in the clinic, but I think just over this podcast, a really easy way.

If you, if you think your listeners would love to follow on, we can, we can do it right here. So what we’re gonna do is blink, blink our eyes really hard a couple of times, so blinking solidly, and then we’ll do it one about three times and then. When I start to count, I want you to hold your eyes open for as long as you can without blinking.

So let’s blink, blink, blink, and then 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9, 10. So normally what people [00:11:00] tell me is that while they’re staring, their eyes start to water. They really wanna blink, but they wanna win. So they hold their eyes open. , and so the n ber that you got to when you had to blink your eyes, or when you started to feel that sting and burn, if you didn’t make it through 10 seconds, then your eyes are.

There isn’t the right composition of oils and water and nutrients on the front surface of your eye to keep your vision clear and your eyes healthy throughout the day. So if you didn’t make it to 10 seconds without them singing and burning, then that’s, that’s how you know it’s time to schedule an eye exam.

Rita Black: No. Is dry eye something that develops? That’s what it sounds like. It’s not something that. Like you not something

Dr. Pam Theriot: you’re born with, right?

Rita Black: Where you had the gene you’re not born with, or it’s not like you get sick and then develop it as something that is more driven by. External things that you’re doing, like makeup, like watching the computer is or [00:12:00] being on?

Dr. Pam Theriot: Exactly. So there’s often like that one straw that breaks the camel’s back. So that one thing that just leads to, okay, now my eyes are dry. , for me it was moving to the desert like I was a contact lens wearer. I spent a lot of time, , reading and on the computer, but I was young. And then my husband and I moved to the desert and it was like, I just couldn’t.

Couldn’t wear my contact lenses anymore. I couldn’t keep makeup on throughout the day. It was like the final, you know, , PO point in the equation. That was, I, I couldn’t tolerate the environment and needed to figure out what, what could be done for other people. It could be, . Going into menopause or having a hysterectomy.

It could be, , having, , an eye surgery like cataract surgery or LASIK surgery. And that, , was like one more insult to their eyes. And then from then they were dry. So there’s lots of treatments for dry [00:13:00] eye as well, which, , which is, which is wonderful to have so many different options.

Rita Black: So dry eye can definitely be reversed or treated like.

Is it something then you’ll need to continue to treat over the course of your life, or is that something that you can actually make it go away?

Dr. Pam Theriot: Hmm. So for the most part, it, it’s a treatment and some patients can be treated to the point where they’re, they’re not putting in medication every single day.

, but they can come to, . A point where they have a flare up. So yeah, like I, I don’t take prescription dry eye medication every day, but if I get on an airplane, , I could have a flare up, right? And so then I could be dry for a few days after being on an airplane or going visiting somewhere, , that was dry, h id, or, .

Dry, arid place might trigger a flare. Allergy season might trigger a flare. Taking a medication that dries your eyes out like an antihistamine might [00:14:00] trigger, trigger a flare. So, , there’s, there’s definitely treatment that patients can become more comfortable and then, you know, symptoms can wax and wait.

Rita Black: Right. Wow. Well, I’m fascinated by the makeup piece. Tell, tell us a little more like, what is that? How does. Makeup impact us. It seems so, well, it doesn’t seem innocent. I will will say, but it, you know, if you feel like, if you’re careful enough, you’re not, it’s not getting into your eyes, but I guess we’re mistaken in.

Ass ing that,

Dr. Pam Theriot: right. So because you place it on your lids, right? Mm-hmm. Cosmetics going on the lashes and the lids, primarily, that is the thinnest skin of the body. So if the ingredients in your makeup contain toxins, it goes right into the skin, and then can do damage to the structures that are.

Underneath the skin. And one of those structures, as we were talking about earlier, are the meibomian glands, [00:15:00] which are the oil glands that produce oils. Every time we blink, some oil should come out of our lids and spread across the front surface of our eyes. If we’re using toxic makeup, like, , let’s say.

, waterproof mascara that clogs the oil gland orifices themselves, or you’re using lash extensions and the glues or adhesives to, to put your lashes onto your eyes contain formaldehyde. Then the, , formaldehyde or the preservatives in those solutions can actually damage those oil glands in the structures of your eyes.

So that’s n ber one, is that the ingredients could actually be toxic to your eyes.

Rita Black: Wow. That’s, that’s amazing. , and what about our computer use? I mean, is it just the blinking part of it or is it just that our eyes are so bombarded with light and [00:16:00] images? Is it?

Dr. Pam Theriot: So it’s, it’s more so the blinking. , of course we, we are constantly looking at our screens these days, so not that we wouldn’t be looking at something, you know, while we’re awake.

We’re con, we’re continuously getting images into our eyes all day long, right? As long as we’re awake, as long as our eyes are open, they’re working. So our eyes are perfectly. Used to working all the time, but now we’re putting so much more strain on them by having an image that we’re staring at that’s, you know, right in front of our faces that we’re, we’re focusing on.

That can make us more nearsighted over time. But that near object combined with the fact that it’s a screen that slows our blink rate. , again, if we were sitting across from each other at a table, . Our blink rate would be more normal, but because we’re, we’re on these screens, we blink less. If we were reading a book, we blink less than we would in conversation.[00:17:00]

But that this digital aspect of it causes us to blink less, even, even more so.

Rita Black: And is there, , something that we should be doing then? Is there a way that we can prevent getting o overload, , so to speak? Absolute with regards absolutely to our computer and screen use.

Dr. Pam Theriot: Yeah, so just this year, , I delivered a TED Talk in Vancouver, Canada, , on this very, , aspect.

So it was called, , three tips to preserve your vision in a screen filled world. . And so I came up with a, a sort of a structure to think about while we’re on our computers. So n ber one is to prepare and really looking at how our workspace is set up. How far away is our, , monitor from us? What is the angle that we’re looking at, monitor, talking about the screen settings, the brightness, the font size.

Those things can all be adjusted and [00:18:00] we can prepare our environment for, , for the work that we need to do. And then the, the second part is perform. So while we’re sitting at the computer, what can we do to preserve our vision? , one might be using a h idifier to get a little bit more h idity in the air around us taking breaks while we’re on the screens to link our eyes, do a couple firm blinks and get those oils moving.

, and the third might be to just use some artificial tears while we’re staring at the screen to rehydrate our eyes. And then the third step of, of that system is really to preserve your vision. So at the end of the day, could you do some things to take care of your eyes, , to get ready for the next day?

And one would be to remove all your makeup. Make sure that your lids and lashes are clean before going to bed. , the next would be taking a nutraceutical, , like an Omega-3 fatty acid supplement that would [00:19:00] support the body by giving it the building blocks of those healthy tears. , and the third would be doing a warm compress.

So putting a warm compress over your eyes, it helps to, , melt those oils that are, that are inside the eyelids. It’s very soothing to the eyes and comfortable. So a couple of steps you can take at the end of the day to allow your eyes to rejuvenate.

Rita Black: Wow, that sounds very relaxing, actually. That warm cloth.

Dr. Pam Theriot: Yes.

Rita Black: , with regards to makeup, should we. I, I know you mentioned, , you, that you have like safe makeups that don’t have those toxins in them. Is there anything we should absolutely not do, even with safe makeups or like, are there particular makeups that, you know, we just shouldn’t, we should avoid putting mascara right at the base of our, our eye so that it’s not gonna clog it up and just use the tips or, you know, what?

What, ,

Dr. Pam Theriot: [00:20:00] yeah, yeah. Let me give, , , three tips. So n ber one is avoid waterproof makeup. So a lot of my dry eye patients feel like, oh, my eyes are watering, or I have to put artificial tears in throughout the day, so I wanna switch to a waterproof makeup so that it doesn’t, doesn’t run away. , but those makeups.

Contain more, , waxes and parabens in them to to stay on the eyes more, and then you have to use a little bit more elbow grease to remove them. So steer clear of waterproof makeup. N ber two is never, ever, ever tightline your eyes. So I think that’s what you’re referring to when you put the eyeliner on the Oh yeah.

Inside rim, , where you’re putting your eyeliner, that’s actually that inside rim, that’s, that belongs to your eye. That’s not your skin anymore. That’s a mucus membrane. And you need to, if you’re gonna wear eyeliner, put it, , on the opposite side of your lashes, the upper and the lower lids, but just, , beneath the lashes.

Right. And then the third thing is that commit that if you’re going to put your makeup on that you have to take it [00:21:00] off at the end of the day. So not sleeping in your eye makeup, , any remnants of makeup that are left in your, on your lids and lashes, or just a breeding ground for the bacteria that normally living there to, to make a happy home and procreate on your lids while you’re asleep.

, which can lead to s stu and infections, that kind of thing.

Rita Black: With the, , eye removal, like the eye removing pads, eye removing claws, are those also, can they be drying and toxic to your eyes, or are they Okay.

Dr. Pam Theriot: No, exactly. So you need to make sure that the ingredients in the eye makeup removers are also eye safe.

, and I do have a handout that if anyone would like to download it, it’s, , that has a list of all the makeup removers and all of the eye safe makeup that I recommend to my patients. So, , you, I can say the, the link is at my website.

Rita Black: And yeah, you can say your website out loud, but we’ll [00:22:00] put the links in the, , I, I think you’re gonna give us a couple of links, right?

Dr. Pam Theriot: Yes, exactly. Exactly. So,

Rita Black: , yeah, we’ll put the links in our show notes, but if you, if you, if you wanna say that the website out loud just so people can hear it and maybe go to it now.

Dr. Pam Theriot: Absolutely. So it’s , www dot pam terio, which is spelled pam the riot.com and then slash remover. That’ll get you the list of makeup removers and eye safe cosmetics that I recommend.

And then if they would like to download the, the digital Eye Strain Relief kit that I, , gave away after my TED Talk, that’s at the same website, pam terio.com and then slash TEDx. I’ll lowercase.

Rita Black: Okay. And, and that is spelled T-H-E-R-I-O-T, just in case. , you didn’t get that Pam Terrio, [00:23:00] right? , exactly.

That’s exciting. , was it fun to be on a Ted Talk?

Dr. Pam Theriot: Absolutely. It was really great to sh to share my message with a global audience and really encourage people to get annual eye exams so that, that is the call to action is that if you haven’t had your eyes checked in a while, , it should, it’s something that should be done yearly and to go see your local eye care provider.

Rita Black: Yeah. Is that something that a lot of, , doctors will not recommend? Like they, they aren’t gonna push you to go make an appointment, so you should just take care of yourself and, and get that done?

Dr. Pam Theriot: Absolutely. I mean, we don’t wait for our primary care doctor to tell us to go to the dentist, but we go to the dentist twice a year.

Right. , you don’t need to wait for your doctor to tell you to go to the eye doctor. It’s just something that you should do once a year.

Rita Black: Okay. Very good. , well I think I’m overdue then. , is there anything else that you think, , about [00:24:00] the upcoming, you know, as we are speaking, it is where we have the winter or the winter is approaching.

Is there anything eye health wise that, ’cause I know it gets, can be drier in the winter time? Absolutely. I meanly it can be dry in the s mer as well. And we do have listeners who are. In the Southern Hemisphere, so it’s their s mer, but a lot of our listeners are in Canada and in the United States. , anything that they can do to protect their eyes in the winter.

Dr. Pam Theriot: Oh, absolutely. So we refer to the winter as dry eye season. , because yes, we have our heaters on and when even we go outside, the cold air might be hitting us. That cold air could be drier if there’s, you know, snow and ice. , so the outside air is dry, the inside air is being dried out. So a couple of simple things would be using a h idifier in the room that you’re spending the most time in, that can also help your nasal passages.

But definitely your eyes. , and then when we go to sleep at night, using a gel or an ointment in your eye to [00:25:00] get add moisture, , can really help provide that moisture while your eyes are closed and allow the, the eye to, to rejuvenate and heal as, as we’re sleeping throughout the day. You might wanna add an artificial tear to your, your normal regimen if you’re staring at a computer screen just to rehydrate your eyes throughout the day.

Rita Black: Artificial tear is, , just eyedrops, but it, it’s called artificial tear.

Dr. Pam Theriot: Yes, absolutely. So I’d recommend a preservative free artificial tear. If you go to your local pharmacy, there’s a, a whole aisle of them. , the ones in vials usually don’t have preservatives, and that, that’s what I would recommend so that you’re not putting more chemicals in your eye and just something lubricating and nutritious.

Rita Black: And the, the gels that you’re recommending, are those also something that are it, you’re not just recommending a, , over the counter moisturizer, but eye specific gel. Is that correct?

Dr. Pam Theriot: Oh, yeah, exactly. Yeah. Would be something that you’d [00:26:00] find on the, you don’t wanna put Vaseline in your eyes, but, , to go to the, the eyecare aisle and put in an ointment or a gel at night, , just to, to add that ex extra moisture during these winter months for sure.

Rita Black: Well, terrific. Well, this is wonderful. Thank you so much. , Dr. Terio Right? I got that right, Teo. Yes.

Dr. Pam Theriot: Yes. Thank you.

Rita Black: I would love to, , put all of your information and your links in our, , show notes. So please, if, if you want to, , look into the healthy makeups and tell us once more what you have and then, and so our listeners can check out the

Dr. Pam Theriot: links.

Sure. There’s two downloads available. One is the, , eyecare, or sorry. One is, , makeup removers for sensitive eyes. And at the end of that one there’s a list of eye safe cosmetics that I recommend. , and the [00:27:00] second is from my TEDx talk, , living in a screen field world. Three tips to preserve your vision.

And so it walks you through how to set up your electronic environment, where your, your computer or your digital devices, , you can support your eyes while you’re using your digital devices. So, , they would be at my website, pam terrio.com/remover or slash TEDx.

Rita Black: I love it. Well, thank you so much for your time today.

It’s been such a pleasure to learn more about our eyes, and, , I’ll look forward to the links so that we can, , I, I wanna check out what I’m wearing. I, I definitely use waterproof, , mascara, so I guess that’s going in the trash.

Dr. Pam Theriot: Thanks so much for having me, Rita. I really appreciate being here.

Rita Black: Yes. Well, thank you.

Thank you so much Dr. Terio. That was such great information and hopefully, , listeners, , [00:28:00] this was helpful for you here in the heart of the winter. , make sure to check out Dr. Pam’s. Downloads they are in the show notes and have a great week. And remember that the key and probably the only key to unlocking the door of the wait challenge is inside you.

So please keep listening and find it, and I will look forward to seeing you here next week. Have a great one. Okay. If you wanna dive deeper into the mindset of long-term weight release, head on over to www shift weight mastery.com. That’s www shift weight mastery.com, where you’ll find n erous tools and resources to help you unlock your mind for permanent weight release.

Tips strategies and more. And be sure to check the show notes to learn more about my book From Fat to Thin Thinking. [00:29:00] Unlock your mind for permanent weight loss.