Rita Black: [00:00:00] Did somebody say social anxiety? Eek. So many people in our community don’t just struggle with weight and food. They’re also carrying a lot of anxiety under the surface, and as we head into the holidays, that anxiety can really ramp up with social events, family expectations, and all the food and pressure to be on and happy, and that’s why I am so glad to be talking today with Brad Robinson.

Rita Black: Creator of the Anxiety Project Podcast. In our conversation, Brad offers practical tools that you can use right away, especially for this season. How to prepare your mind before social events, how to gently face your dragons instead of running from them. And how simple changes in habits and routines can calm your mind and bring more order to [00:01:00] your life.

Rita Black: We’ll also look at how social anxiety can lead to using food as comfort or escape, and how shifting your focus towards connection and service can support both your mental health. And your weight journey. So let’s dive in.

Rita Black: Did you know that our struggle with weight doesn’t start with the food on your plate or get fixed in the gym? 80% of our weight struggle is mental. That’s right. The key to unlocking long-term weight release and management begins in your mind. Hi there, I’m Rita Black. I’m a clinical hypnotherapist, weight loss expert, bestselling author, and the creator of the Shift Weight Mastery Process.

Rita Black: And not only have I helped thousands of people over the past 20 years achieve long-term weight mastery. I am also a former weight struggler carb addict. [00:02:00] And binge eater. And after two decades of failed diets and fad weight loss programs, I lost 40 pounds with the help of hypnosis. Not only did I release all that weight, I have kept it off for 25 years.

Rita Black: Enter the Thin Thinking Podcast where you too will learn how to remove the mental roadblocks that keep you struggling. I’ll give you the thin thinking tools, skills, and insights to help you develop the mindset you need. Not only to achieve your ideal weight, but to stay there long term and live your best life.

Rita Black: Sound good? Let’s get started. Hello? Come on in and get cozy. Uh, if you are here in the United States, and I know many of you are not, so I am not excluding you, but here in the United States, we are a week out from Thanksgiving. If you are listening to this as it drops, as this episode drops, [00:03:00] uh, and I’m just kind of curious, if you are here in the United States, what are your plans?

Rita Black: I am super excited because it’s the first time in a while, maybe a couple of years that I have both my children at home or will have them at home at least for the day. Sometimes I can’t get them for much longer than that. Um, in the same place. But we are heading to our friends for Thanksgiving dinner and we, this is a tradition our family has, uh, and with the same family and we get together and it’s wonderful because the kids all grew up together, so it, even though they aren’t blood relatives, it feels like family and we.

Rita Black: Get together early in the day, get the Turkey in the oven, and we head out for a big hike and then we come back and finish everything up and it’s just perfect. It’s just such a lovely time and a great reason to be grateful. So, uh, we like doing things like roasted [00:04:00] vegetables and healthy things, so it’s also great that we have that in common that we like.

Rita Black: Healthier foods. Um, I am trying something which I’m throwing together. I don’t even have a recipe, but I’m trying a pomegranate and preserved lemon salad. This salad isn’t made of preserved, preserved lemons. Uh, it’ll have arugula and, um, you know, all sorts of little bits and bobs in it, but I love preserved lemon.

Rita Black: I don’t know about you and I love. Pomegranates and with a little nuts on the top, just a little bit. Mm. I think it’s gonna be really good. Um, now I will be honest and be honest with you, you know, super honest, uh, and, and vulnerable, I guess. Uh, what I love about being with this group of people is that they are close to me.

Rita Black: I know them. So there’s no social awkwardness or [00:05:00] anxiety involved. Because sometimes truth be told, I can shy away from crowds. Yes, I am an introverted extrovert. If that was correct. I love my community. I love the thin thinking community and my membership, and I feel so cozy with everyone there, but big crowds of strangers.

Rita Black: I don’t know, especially walking into a room of people. I don’t know. Well, I can get weird, uh, and my husband’s so good at meeting strangers. I’m not. I’m a little shy, so I was thinking this. Interview with Brad, uh, might be helpful for anyone out there who is like me or challenged with getting out there, especially in the holiday season.

Rita Black: Many of our members in our community want to know how to combat anxiety and related issues like agri. And that was hard to say, and [00:06:00] especially social anxiety. So I’m excited to share Brad with you. Uh, before we dive in, will you do me a huge favor and hit subscribe. Uh, you don’t wanna miss my Thanksgiving episode coming up next week where I am planning a gratitude priming meditation for you all.

Rita Black: I’m really looking forward to doing it, and I think you’re gonna love it. Uh, so hit subscribe. Don’t be shy. Just exercise that finger a little bit. Hit subscribe. So you always get those episodes dropped. Onto your platform of choice. Brad Robinson is a certified cognitive behavioral therapy coach and a neurolinguistic programming master practitioner.

Rita Black: He is best known as the founder of the podcast and brand, the Anxiety Project Podcast, where he shares this journey and helps others overcome anxiety disorders. Well, I have Mr. [00:07:00] Brad Robinson here with me. Welcome to the Thin Thinking Podcast, Brad. It’s, I’ve been looking forward to our conversation.

 Brad Robinson: Likewise. Thank you for having me. This is great.

Rita Black: Yeah, I mean, so many of our listeners, uh, deal with or grapple with anxiety, and I know you, uh, you have a whole podcast, the Anxiety Project. Uh, you have a world of information on your website. Um, but I’d love to hear about your story about anxiety. Like what, how did you fall into helping people manage.

Rita Black: Anxiety.

 Brad Robinson: Yeah, no, that’s, that’s awesome because I get a lot of comments on my channel saying it relates to me and what I’m going through. So on my channel I talk about the details like. The embarrassing details of what I went through and you know, I, knowing my parents are gonna listen to this, [00:08:00] and it’s like, okay, I’m just gonna say, because when I first started the show, I remember sitting in a coffee shop thinking I’m gonna do this podcast to help me because I.

 Brad Robinson: Can’t talk properly. I’m like, I feel shy. I have a lot of social anxiety at the time. Um, and I feel like I’m down on the totem pole in terms of competence hierarchy out in society, you know, not really growing in a job. You know, I’m at home in my parents’ basement. Um, I’m in, I’m in my late twenties and I was just feeling lost.

 Brad Robinson: Um, there’s no meaning in my life. I had a negative toxic relationship for four years that I hung on to because I was just scared of moving beyond what was normal. And a lot of people don’t realize that their normal can be stress and Yeah, you know, they don’t realize that. And [00:09:00] I, I didn’t realize that. I, I didn’t realize like I could break away, but I didn’t have enough confidence.

 Brad Robinson: I didn’t have the competence enough to do that. So in my twenties I was just running. Every which way in my life, mentally. Right. I was going on Tinder because, you know, I ended up breaking up with her and then trying to find somebody else. And I was watching and listening to toxic role models, men who were womanizers, who were drinking, who were having these flamboyant Charlie Sheen type lifestyles.

 Brad Robinson: And I was like. This is great. This is what’s gonna bring me meaning because it, it, it’s just the novelty of the new all the time in that kind of lifestyle that, that’s attractive. But my anxiety just got too much. Um, anxiety. The definition of anxiety is too many pathways in front of you. And, um, there were too many and, you know.

 Brad Robinson: When [00:10:00] my parents would sit me down and say, what do you wanna do in your life? Where do you want to go? My anxiety would be like, immediately I’d be resistant. Like anger, right? Like, I don’t know, I just like what I’m doing right now. And um, that’s the thing is when we’re confused and lost, we tend to. Fall into the bitterness resentment and, um, that will lead you down into the subcategories of the underworld.

 Brad Robinson: Hell, really. Um, so yeah, I was, I was deeply anxious and I had a lot of social anxiety, which I really wanna talk about today because I think that’s huge. Especially nowadays when a lot of kids like my older self playing video games all the time. Yeah. Or, you know, not getting out there, meeting people and, you know, pushing your limits of, of just yourself.

 Brad Robinson: So yeah, my story was addiction, addiction. [00:11:00] I was addicted to marijuana. I would do that every night. I would stay up till 2:00 AM watching stuff on tv. I would avoid going into work ’cause I later suffer from agoraphobia. Agoraphobia is, you know, a lot of, most women have this and a lot of men do. I, I coach a lot of men too, but it’s mostly women who get agoraphobia, which is interesting.

 Brad Robinson: Um, but agoraphobia is the fear of public places. Yeah. So Agora, I think it’s the Greek word for market. So it’s the fear of the market, right? The fear of public places. Yes.

Rita Black: And how does that, do you know the root of that, like how that develops? I remember I was actually, it’s so interesting. I was thinking about my sister-in-law today because she developed agoraphobia right after she got married to my brother.

Rita Black: And uh, is it triggered by something? Can it be triggered by something or, and, and we have a lot of listeners in our world who I. You know, 50 and above. And I [00:12:00] think I see that too in, um, that develops And I think did the pandemic also trigger a lot of agoraphobia?

 Brad Robinson: Oh, yeah. Um, the fear of the unknown, that’s the.

 Brad Robinson: Best way to describe agoraphobia is when the unknown, it’s like the jaws poster of the, the shark coming up and the person swimming on the top. You know, like, like that’s the definition of going into the underworld is like you’re in your bubble. That’s the Buddha story. You know, Siddhartha is in his bubble.

 Brad Robinson: He’s just in his kingdom, his castle, and his father doesn’t wanna let him out of the castle because there’s a lot of death decay suffering out there. But he goes out there. And he’s instantly traumatized ’cause he witnesses an old man at the side of the road, then he witnesses death and then, but he runs back each time inside and he’s traumatized like it, it left a [00:13:00] stain on him and he can’t, and you can’t let that go.

 Brad Robinson: And a lot of people with a agoraphobia, something happens in their life, a trigger. So they get a heart palpitations and they go, oh my god. Not even my husband or my family can help me because this is a, a internal thing that’s outside someone’s control and all of a sudden it’s immediately level 10 anxiety, um, because the shark comes up and it’s their mortality.

 Brad Robinson: And, and, you know, agoraphobia is, is two fears, the fear of social judgment and the fear of mortality because mm-hmm. When you go out into the subway, it’s very common. Or the elevator. What it is, is, oh my God, I’m gonna die here, but while I die, I’m gonna make a fool out of myself in front of these people.

 Brad Robinson: And so I’m not gonna have my family around to help me. And so they come back home and they stay home. And this is what I did in my twenties is I had a [00:14:00] call in job, I was in the film industry, and I would have to call in every night to make myself available. And I remember I would call in and I’d be up at 2:00 AM.

 Brad Robinson: Pacing in the living room, I would be like, I can’t go into work. I’m gonna make a fool out of myself. I’m, I’m gonna, I’m gonna probably faint or something. I’m gonna be too tired. I can’t sleep. And then all of this stuff would swim and then I would be like, I gotta call and, and cancel it. And I would cancel it.

 Brad Robinson: And then what happens when you avoid something? It gets bigger. Yeah. The fear just. It goes like this, and it, and it rapidly goes like that. It’s not just a little bit, it’s like, bam, the dragon grows and then you’re like, two days, no work, three days at home, a week at home. And then it just, you know, the, I had to, I had to struggle and force myself to walk a block from my house just to.

 Brad Robinson: You know, combat this [00:15:00] thing. ’cause it got that big, it got that serious. Right? And I love to use the metaphors and the symbols of the dragon and the, the predatory creatures because that’s really how our brains respond to it, right? Yes. It’s, it’s really your prey animal. When you run away from something, your body’s, your body responds to you that way.

 Brad Robinson: Like you, it shrinks you down.

Rita Black: Right. And that fight, flight, freeze. Yep. Interesting. So, and do you see agoraphobia as something that ratchets up seasonally? Like we are now heading into the winter, so we are going inside and do you see that ratchet up in over the holidays, for instance? Like people maybe staying shut in, not going out for social events?

 Brad Robinson: Yeah, yeah, definitely. Um, anxiety can heighten because. Um, because first [00:16:00] of all, we’re not getting the sun that we need. Um, it helps, um, the, it definitely helps a lot. Even I notice that come, uh, come the winter season, but, but when we stay inside too much, yeah. We, we tend to latch on to other things. You know, a lot of people, a lot of people that I coach, you know, they’ll latch on to, whether it’s pornography or shopping or alcohol or something.

 Brad Robinson: Um, just to entertain themselves. Tv, another thing. Um, but it, it definitely heightens it, um, if you already have agoraphobia. Yeah. The winter season is like, it makes it a lot. I remember when I was in my twenties and it, when winter season came around. It would just be that much more impossible for me to leave because I would be waking up freezing.

 Brad Robinson: Like just, I would feel like, ’cause the anxiety would heighten that feeling of just being [00:17:00] cold and miserable and, um Yeah. Yeah. Definitely affects it.

Rita Black: What did you, how did you start to. Overcome your own anxiety. And then I would love to hear like what would be some, you know, there are a few different types of anxiety.

Rita Black: You know, we talked about before we turned on record that I’d love to speak with you about and some tactics. But how did you go from this? Anxiety, rid, ridden, agoraphobic, 20-year-old. My heart goes out to most 20 year olds. It’s the worst. It’s the worst brain to be in for for sure. I

 Brad Robinson: wasn’t even 20, I was like 26 or seven.

 Brad Robinson: It’s like, it’s

Rita Black: like the whole twenties are just Yeah. A chaotic mess in the brain for sure. Uh, how did you. I know you mentioned you started helping yourself by starting your own [00:18:00] podcast and, and then learning more. Um, and then how did you find your way out of that, like step by step? I mean, you don’t have to tell us all, every single step, but I’m just curious how the, you unraveled the anxiety for yourself.

 Brad Robinson: No, I think the first, I think the first step is so important. I think it was. Carl Rogers psychologist who, who discovered, no, not discovered, but realized in his practice that um, people have to admit first that they have a problem before they can get better. You can’t just force somebody to be like, you know, you gotta change yourself and scare them straight, so to speak.

 Brad Robinson: They have to kind of have to be. Voluntarily, you know, willing to do it. So that I was, I reached a point where, where I, like I had a really bad health [00:19:00] anxiety and I reached a point where I searched online because the scary part in life, especially when you live in that bubble. That, that agoraphobic woman we were talking about earlier who, you know, lives in, in like comfort and then all of a sudden this, the, the ice, they’re skating on breaks.

 Brad Robinson: And the, the harsh reality is, well, my family who I, I’ve trusted my partner, whoever. Can’t help me. They don’t know any more of my issues than I do. And you’re like, oh my God. Right. They’re, they’re the backbone. They’re the safety net, but it’s. It, they’re not the resource that you need to go to. I had to go online myself and I was like, okay, is this something someone else suffered with?

 Brad Robinson: Thank God for the internet. Right? And I, I’m, there was a coach who dealt with anxiety, spoke my language. Experience the same things I was going [00:20:00] through. You know, like the things like when I would go to work, I’d have panic attacks at my job or going to a symphony with my girlfriend at the time, um, who now was my wife, uh, you know, having a panic attack sitting in a symphony hall, like terrified out of my skull.

 Brad Robinson: And, you know, not knowing what this is and a lot of people who come to my, my practice, it’s such a relief to to know. It’s like, oh, this is a common thing. It’s not, I’m not, uh, unusual. I’m not a, you know, weird kind of specimen creature. That’s a huge relief to people. And then once someone finds someone they can relate to, it’s like, yeah, I can take responsibility, I can change.

 Brad Robinson: And that’s a relief too. It’s like, I can do this. It’s something that can, you know, be molded. It’s not permanent. It doesn’t have to be, if you’re willing to make the right sacrifices. Um. So that’s the first step. Second step is. How did [00:21:00] this person that you’re now modeling after, you know, overcome it, get knowledgeable, you know, what kind of program did they do?

 Brad Robinson: For me it was cognitive behavioral therapy was really great. Uh, neurolinguistic programming is great. There’s structured programs. It doesn’t even have to be that. It could be Jungian, it could be Freudian, whatever. You know, it’s a structure that people need. ’cause anxiety disorder is. Disorder. That’s disrupted, disrupted order.

 Brad Robinson: You have to add, reenter the order into your life and minimize all of that noise. Because like the best way to describe an anxiety sufferers mind is like a over cluttered garage of things that they’re just, it’s just a mess. And how do you respond to a mess? It’s immediate negative response, right? You walk into a room.

 Brad Robinson: And there’s socks everywhere. It’s cluttered. It’s unorganized. And your mind goes, there’s so [00:22:00] many obstacles to get to my goal, right? ’cause we’re always in a goal directed. Pathway. You we’re in a certain path towards something, but if something gets in your pathway, your brain has to use up some sort of resource to deal with the obstacle.

 Brad Robinson: So you walk into a room, that’s a disaster. Like many anxiety sufferers rooms are. It’s like your brain is like, you know, obstacle, obstacle, obstacle. I can’t find the sock, which should be easy to find if it was tidy. Right? So you tidy up. You tidy up that garage. It doesn’t have to be metaphorical. You literally have to tidy up your home as well as, which helps your mind by the way.

Rita Black: Right? So internal, external. So you’re internal, external. So you are, you’re taking agency, you’re creating some agency by clearing your space and taking agency by [00:23:00] taking responsibility. It sounds like the CBT, the NLPI know a lot of acronyms, uh, help you have some hierarchy of thought, uh, re reframing how you see things so that those.

Rita Black: The thought responses, the thought triggers can calm down and it kind of, in a way just clears that path. So it’s like that’s, that thought’s not needed actually, and that thought, that’s not a real thought that really we need here.

 Brad Robinson: Right? Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Um, so I love CBT because, um. I was teaching myself like you were, like you’re saying not to entertain certain thoughts.

 Brad Robinson: Mm-hmm. Right. And also to change my habits too, which was so huge. That’s another step. That’s the fourth step in recovery. So the first step, take responsibility, get knowledgeable. You have to, [00:24:00] three, set goals for yourself. Okay. Where do we see yourself in three months? So for me, I wrote on a piece of paper my goals.

 Brad Robinson: And I put it on my wall in my room and I was like, okay, three months, this is where I want to kind of get to. Perfect. You need somewhere to go. ’cause if you don’t have a goal, you don’t know where you’re going. And that’s anxiety. Mm-hmm. Um, and then the fourth thing is. You gotta change your habits. And that was, that was the big thing for me because I didn’t realize how much I was just running around doing things I didn’t need to do that was just not, was not serving me at all.

 Brad Robinson: So, for example, set a consistent sleep time and wake time, get up at the same time every day. And for me, I fell. I fell in love with. Early rising and I’m, I’m a guy who woke up at 10, 11 in the morning and I now I’m getting up seven, then six, then [00:25:00] five. And I loved it. I loved like having all this time in the morning so I can just relax.

 Brad Robinson: I don’t have to get up and rush and do something, or trying to figure out, like, no, it was, it was a challenge at the same time. ’cause I hated it. This is not something I loved. Like I was like, ah, I’m getting up at five. I’m so tired. But I would do it anyways because I realized that I hated my old self. I just Right.

 Brad Robinson: Didn’t wanna be that guy anymore. It was because my role model didn’t represent that guy. I didn’t want to be that guy. Right. And I knew if I, if I did the opposite, I would get somewhere. It’d be rough at first. But I’d get somewhere.

Rita Black: Well, and you were shifting your identity of who, who? I’m a person who wakes up at 5:00 AM

 Brad Robinson: Yeah.

Rita Black: Did you set an alarm to go to bed?

 Brad Robinson: No, I didn’t do that. Um, I set the alarm for the morning. Um, [00:26:00] I just, the, the night thing came, I guess naturally I developed like a routine where an hour before bed I wouldn’t. Engage in like, stimulating things. I, I gave myself like this funny, um, title. I would always call, call myself the King of relaxation.

 Brad Robinson: I would be take a hard bath and light candles and like, you know, put on spa music and then go meditate. And I was doing all of that stuff at night and it was just, it, I don’t know, it just felt better than. Anything else I was doing in my life, you know, like driving around drinking coffee after 6:00 PM and you know, like just, you know, I had a job where I would, I would be done around 12 1:00 AM which I, I, I ended up moving on from for good reason.[00:27:00]

 Brad Robinson: And, um, yeah, it, it just having that time to myself. But it’s very productive time. Like it’s very, you know, sacred. That’s the word I, I really like. It’s sacred time.

Rita Black: Yeah, no, I, I, I

 Brad Robinson: can take it away from you. You know, nobody,

Rita Black: right. Wow. Well, very cool. And then so, uh, then you, uh, after, so you started shifting habits and that, that first big step was sleep.

Rita Black: And then things fell into place from there.

 Brad Robinson: Yeah. Um, it, it’s always, it’s always up and down because I would, I would tackle one habit or one addiction. I would tackle something small. I’d be coffee. I’d wean myself off from that. Um, and it’d be like, okay, I’m good. And this is how you build co competence is when you do something difficult for yourself.

 Brad Robinson: Don’t, [00:28:00] don’t compare yourself to other people. That’s a horrible thing to do. Mm-hmm. ’cause your dragon is your dragon. If you’re addicted to coffee and you’re struggling, that’s your thing. Mm-hmm. That’s your thing. And that’s dragon. So you deal with that and don’t, don’t take these things so light or lightly.

 Brad Robinson: Yeah. You know, don’t judge, don’t compare yourself to other people. Right. And

Rita Black: don’t downplay. It’s like, well it’s only coffee. Yeah, right. Don’t downplay, it’s your dragon. So it has importance. I like that. That’s very important. Definitely. For people to hear and and also to know, not to compare. And despair.

Rita Black: Yeah. Very easy to do, especially in this world of social media and all of that. Did you find yourself tuning out of. Social media or being online as much, did that help you at all, or not so much? So, yes.

 Brad Robinson: It, it helped, it got worse recently when I had a baby. Mm-hmm. I felt myself trying to [00:29:00] cope with the sleeplessness and I would, I would be on a couch or something, and I’ll still do this, I’d take out my phone and you’d know, if you go to my Instagram page, Brad’s profile mm-hmm.

 Brad Robinson: I don’t post that much. And, uh, to tell you the truth, I hate. I hate social media. I don’t post that much. And so my wife’s like, it’s your business. And it’s like, you gotta opt. I just tell her like, I don’t even care. I just, I hate social media. It’s, I despise it. And, um, and, but I go on it too, which is funny.

 Brad Robinson: I’m gonna delete it. I know it’s coming. I always tell myself that’s just, I’m just gonna get rid of it. So, um, I’ll keep my page, but I don’t know what I’m gonna do. It’s, but it, it helped me so much because. It just does not serve. I, I would restrict myself like mornings and nights, just, you know, not good at all.

 Brad Robinson: Don’t have that super stimuli around. Is it is a super stimuli. It’s too dopaminergic.

Rita Black: Yeah, [00:30:00] for sure. Yeah. Well, well, we were talking about. Agoraphobia, but you know, we are heading into the holiday season. I I do plan to broadcast this before the holidays and I did, I know you had mentioned social anxiety and maybe can you define that and if somebody was suffering from that, because so many people do what, it almost seems to be an epidemic, doesn’t it?

Rita Black: Um, what. Your thoughts on how some simple practices people could use to ease their social anxiety over the holiday season? Yeah,

 Brad Robinson: I love that. It’s huge. I, one of the big topics of my podcast, I have a lot of strategies. I have a lot of strategies. Oh, cool. So the big, the story I like to tell when I do a social anxiety episode is when I was [00:31:00] struggling with social anxiety.

 Brad Robinson: I remember going to a Starbucks and talking to the barista. I would stutter. I would look down on the ground and I would tell myself, I can’t. I can’t come back here. And I would walk out and I’d be like, can’t come back here. And then my other brain, ’cause I started anxiety recovery at the time, my other voice in the head said.

 Brad Robinson: You gotta come back here and try again tomorrow. And I’m like, okay, I’m gonna come back to the same person who like, you know, I feel embarrassed. And it’s like, you gotta come back. And so I would come back, I would be a little better at it and I’ll be like, okay. All right. That was good. So this is a great movie to, I recommend A Groundhog Day with Bill Murray.

 Brad Robinson: Yeah. I love that movie. The movie is so brilliant on so many levels. I have a three part. A podcast where it would be an hour each episode breaking down the frames of that movie. It was so deep. It’s so, it’s such a long [00:32:00] time. It is an in,

Rita Black: I’ve, I’ve probably watched that movie 2, 3, 4 times over the course of my life.

Rita Black: Yeah. Yeah. It is brilliant. It is brilliant. And I mean, it’s become a social norm to say, oh, I’m having a Groundhog Day Moment. Yeah.

 Brad Robinson: Yeah.

 Brad Robinson: I, that’s this scene. I’m, I’m, I’m bringing up. Is, uh, Phil’s talking to Rita in a, in a cafe or something, and he, he kind of says something that’s very, you know, offensive and he, he kinda makes a fool out of himself and Rita is like.

 Brad Robinson: Okay. You know, and, and you can see the look on Phil’s face. He’s like, oh, I shouldn’t have said that. But what’s interesting is Phil comes back ’cause he, the, the day repeats, right, right. He tries again. He gets it a little better. Yeah. The conversation a little better and Rita’s like more engaged and you have to do it like it does in times for the conver, you know, you have to be doing it.

Rita Black: I love that.

Brad Robinson: Yeah, it, it’s Bri, it’s brilliant, right? Because you could either do it [00:33:00] or you can run away and say, I’m not gonna go, I’m not gonna put myself in that situation again. It was too embarrassing. It’s like, you’re never gonna grow. You’re never gonna grow if you don’t do that. So social anxiety is when you know you’re at a party or, or get together and someone looks at you and you kind of turn your head kinda look away.

 Brad Robinson: You, you’ll avoid talking to people or you’ll whisper to your wife or husband, you know, when are we going? You’ll kind of use them as a shield. Mm-hmm. When you’re around people, um, you’ll kind of go to the bathroom, lock yourself in the bathroom. I’ve done that before. Um, uh, so you’ll do those things kind of, you know, you’ll wanna leave early.

 Brad Robinson: I think I said that, but what. The thing is, when you, when somebody looks at you, it’s, it’s like that judgment that gets you right. It’s, it’s like all of your insecurities are being tested. You’re, and so a lot of what, like how [00:34:00] to deal with social anxiety is many ways. First of all, you have to just become competent behind the scenes with yourself.

 Brad Robinson: You have to, you know. Fix your life like we’re talking about with that clutter. Mm-hmm. All the stressors in your life that you’re not dealing with. The dragons, the unre, the unlooked into trauma, all that stacked stuff. You gotta deal with that behind the scenes. But if I’m talking to a client and he’s going to a party or something, what would I say to him?

 Brad Robinson: Well, I’d say, look, you look into the other person’s eyes, first of all. And. You, you, you, you try and listen to what they’re saying, but you, you ask questions rather than talk about yourself. And so it’ll put you out of yourself because if you’re very self-conscious, that’s negative emotion immediately.

 Brad Robinson: Mm-hmm. If you’re aware of yourself that you’re gonna experience this negative emotion, put yourself outside of yourself. Um, [00:35:00] um, I would, I, I teach people just how to have their face when they’re. Listening to people, which is a weird thing. ’cause a lot of people who are anxious will be like wide-eyed kind of, you know, prey kind of like person.

 Brad Robinson: But I teach, I teach them to kind of squint their eyes, you know, kind of look, pretend that you’re really interested even, you know, you don’t have to. ’cause sometimes you can’t get past your mind. Right? But try and pretend like, you know, have your face a certain way. I’d get them to imagine. The get together before you arrive.

Rita Black: I was gonna say, is there something that you can do to prepare your mind prior to a social event so that it can be a smoother transition?

 Brad Robinson: Yeah. Yeah. So, um, there’s, there’s, the brain doesn’t know the difference between what’s real and what’s imagined. Yes. Which is. Ma the [00:36:00] amazing to know, right? NIP is a lot, a lot of this where you, yeah.

 Brad Robinson: You get the person to sit, you can do this yourself, and you close your eyes and vividly you put yourself into the room where you’re going to have that party. And you, you imagine how you want it to go. You’re talking, you’re smiling, you’re engaging, you’re listening intently. Um, and then you imagine how your posture is, you’re breathing.

 Brad Robinson: When you’re visualizing it, try to breathe and relax when you’re visualizing it. And, and visualize the end of how you’re walking out, how you are thinking, oh, that went well. You know, feel confident, feel pretty good, um, and talk to yourself like, like you’re your best friend. You know, like say, you know, this is an opportunity to change Brad.

 Brad Robinson: This is, you know, this is an opportunity to grow and that’s setting a goal. Yeah. ’cause the goal is [00:37:00] if I can face this kind of dragon that I’m going into, that’s a goal. Like, don’t think of tomorrow. Don’t think of like, ah, it’s no big deal, this party thing. You know, a lot of people tend to think like that.

 Brad Robinson: It’s like, it’s a big deal. Treat it like it’s an opportunity and a challenge where you can, where you can grow into it rather than something that’s not a big deal. Right.

Rita Black: My son had social anxiety and his therapist said, think of it as an adventure, like a, you know, and so exactly what you’re saying is like you’re kind of opening a door for yourself rather than, oh no, you know, uh, this can be an adventure, this can be something.

Rita Black: And do you find. Like, let’s say I was gonna go to a holiday party, or, uh, I’m just going to go to my family’s for Thanksgiving and you know, there were gonna be 15 [00:38:00] people there. Would you set a goal with how many people you were going to interact or have a, like a connected conversation with, you know, there’s the social niceties and, you know, but, but like.

Rita Black: Do you find that going in with a purpose? Like, I really want to say something to mom like that is going to be, or maybe not mom, but Aunt Betty. Yeah. You know, that, uh, ask her about her life so that, you know, then I have more of a, I, I’ve kind of created a, a, you know, like, like you said, that chaotic brain.

Rita Black: I’ve now kind of. Compartmentalize, like, okay, I’m going to, you know, obviously a lot of situations you don’t know anybody who’s gonna be there or those are the worst situations. ’cause you’re like, you’re going with your spouse or somebody and you’re like, I don’t know anybody at this party. But even if it’s just with the goal of, I’m [00:39:00] gonna learn three, you know, the names of three new people and what they do for a living and what you know about them, like you said.

Rita Black: Yeah. Um. You know, sometimes, you know, ’cause I, you know, ’cause we’re in our world, we’re managing also our relationship with weight and self care. And, uh, we’ll eat, you know, we’ll overeat, we’ll we’ll go to the buffet table, you know, to avoid that conversation or just kind of to self-soothe. Yeah. You know that when, so.

Rita Black: What we’ll say is, you know, or what I’ll say is, you know, instead of the food, you know, like focus on really connecting with a couple of people, but I could see like if that was not, um, if I had a lot of social anxiety, you know, and, and I do, like, I, I used to have huge social anxiety as well, but I think.

Rita Black: For me, what ha helps a lot is, like you said, to to [00:40:00] kind of be of service. Like, to think of how can I be of service here? Like in, instead of it being about, um, everybody’s looking at me and you know, it’s all about me. It’s just like, how can I come in to this situation and make a difference? Like, how can I help the hostess?

Rita Black: How can I or host, how can I, um, make somebody’s day better? Um. Helps me just get outta myself. Like you said, just the the, the attention isn’t gonna be on me anymore. It’s gonna be outside of me. And I think, I think Phil in Groundhog Day discovers that as well because he’s like very self-centered. And then as he get, he’s like more like, oh, what are my words?

Rita Black: How are they impacting that other person? And that, like you said, I love that you broke that all down. That’s great.

 Brad Robinson: Um, yeah, the, the funny se. Scene in Groundhog Day. I love this scene. I always remember this when he comes down the stairs of the [00:41:00] Airbnb and there’s that nice old lady, right, enjoying your stay.

 Brad Robinson: And he and Phil has this terrible, not, it’s not, it’s so, it’s sort of social anxiety, but it’s a poorly constructed persona. He’s just. So he’s like so self-centered, like you’re saying. He’s just inside his head. He comes across rude and the look of the old lady is just like, who’s this guy? You know? Um, and it’s, I love that scene.

 Brad Robinson: ’cause it perfectly shows the persona and how bad it can be. You know, the, the, the, the, the persona is the mask you wear in public. Right. And it’s, it’s a skill. Like you have to develop that. And he does throughout the movie. If you pay attention to. Because if you love psychology, and I’m sure the listeners of this podcast do, um, go and watch that movie through that frame of like there’s the persona and watch how he transforms his, like the social anxiety and then the depression, and then the anxiety and the [00:42:00] meaninglessness and how he sort of brings in the meaning and the goals and how he starts to develop himself.

 Brad Robinson: ’cause I love how he. He goes through this nihilistic kind of reckless stage for a little bit. Yeah. And then the next thing is, you know, he’s in a diner and he’s reading, and he’s listening to Mozart. And you can tell like he’s just changing the identity as he moves along. But it’s bad, right? That you’re gonna be bad at it, like the social anxiety bit.

 Brad Robinson: You know, you, you know, don’t be a tyrant to yourself because a tyrant to oneself is no room for error. Gotta account for error and be, when you have error, it’s like, okay, the way to overcome that feeling of, of maybe shame is to take what, where you went wrong in your eyes and say, how can I improve that next time?

 Brad Robinson: And if you keep doing that, you’re just going to, man, you’re gonna go so far. [00:43:00]

Rita Black: Yeah. I, I think sometimes too, uh, with social anxiety, the fear is that when you’re talking to somebody that you, they can see through you, that they can see like, oh, they’re, they know I’m a loser. They, you know, like, no matter what you’re saying, they, they’re like looking right down into you.

Rita Black: You know, if there’s a way to kind of prevent your brain from going down that road, because obviously if somebody, you’re talking to a perfect stranger, they cannot see deep into you. But it is that fear, like you said, it’s the dragon, it’s the, this animal is going to eat me alive. And so, and I’m, I’m just so raw and bare.

Rita Black: How, and, but you mentioned a mask like coming in and maybe. Do you think, uh, you know how we were talking earlier about identity and how can you [00:44:00] adopt a social, uh, identity where you, you know, I, I, my, when my husband and I moved from London to, um, Los Angeles, we had the, um. It’s a great story. My, we knew this woman in London whose parents lived in Beverly Hills and they lived in Betty Grable’s old house.

Rita Black: Right? Like, so this was like, and she said, oh, you can go stay with my parents for a couple of weeks while you kinda get grounded. ’cause we had no money and we just, you know, and, and they offered. We went to this house and the woman, the, the mother, the father was a famous hypnotherapist who, um, actually cured the elephant man.

Rita Black: And um, and he was the head of the Lining Institute. His name was Albert Mason, and his wife was sort of a. Very interesting woman who wrote, but she had incredible social anxiety and she was a bit of an agoraphobic range, but she was beautiful and she had these beautiful, like they, they, their house had, [00:45:00] they had a tennis court and a swimming closed.

Rita Black: They just were, he’s incredibly successful. And she said, and she had this beautiful Swiss accent, so she was like, she looked like Gloria Vanderbilt, you know, she had the, the black hair and she just was very well put together. But I said, you have social anxiety. How could you, you are so well spoken and you are very, uh, literary.

Rita Black: She, you know, knew all the books. She goes, when I go into an interview or I go into a situation where I am anxious, I become this, the interviewer or the interview, like I, she just like stepped into this very. I have this identity that I step into in order to be me, but me per, you know, like me amplified.

Rita Black: And she says, and it just helps me to just put on that skin and to step into it. It, and it’s not like she’s being false, but it’s just like this, it feels like protective armor [00:46:00] that she’s stepping into and it engages her inner idea of herself. So that to me seems like a helpful way of, um. Accessing yourself, but with this idea of like, oh, the social me, the social Rita going into a party.

 Brad Robinson: Yep. Oh yeah. It’s a sub personality for sure. It it is a skill. Absolutely. What, like you were saying, how do you prevent like that thinking of when you’re in that situation of like, what are. They would think I’m a loser or something. Um, for me, I have a simple solution. I engage in a different voice. I tell it to shut up.

 Brad Robinson: I or I say, I’ll reject it. I reject that thought because, because what I learned is there’s a certain amount of seconds, I think it’s around seven to 10 seconds, where if you entertain the thought or respond to it, then it’s gonna. Trigger the effects of that,

Rita Black: right? It’s gonna own you. [00:47:00]

 Brad Robinson: So you have a, you have a timeframe of like the thought comes in and it’s like that awareness, but you don’t have to react to it.

 Brad Robinson: You can react to it with the other voice. You say, nah, I shut up. This is an opportunity. I started to talk to myself like that all the time. Reading. I would, I would say, you know, this is a challenge when I would have the panic attacks when I know I was going into a situation. Where I would, I’m gonna be challenged by the dragon.

 Brad Robinson: Uh, I would always just tell myself, is it, this is an opportunity, this is a challenge. Those are the words always. Uh, you know, today’s the day I’m gonna prove myself wrong. Um, so you’re, you’re adopting this hero identity. ’cause the hero is the one that goes into the unknown. Confronts the dragon and then gains the gold, which is, you know, the symbol for knowledge.

 Brad Robinson: Right. And takes it back to the community to share the knowledge, share, share the wealth with other people. So [00:48:00] you’re, you’re taking on that identity when you speak to yourself like that. Don’t speak to yourself like, like you’re the prey animal and you’re gonna certainly react like one for sure. Yeah. So prepare, you know, take that time.

 Brad Robinson: I had a. Client and still do I talk to him? Uh, uh, once in a while. He’s a famous pianist and he’d have concerts and he, before the concert, I would say, you know, imagine how you want it to go sit. Imagine how when you’re playing, he would take an anti-anxiety medication before going on, and he’s told me once I remember this, it, it was awesome.

 Brad Robinson: He didn’t take it for one performance. He did the, he did the. Visualization. It went amazing. He, he said, he, he, you know, it, it lessened the pressure because you’re kind of going into the layer without doing it yet. You know, the, the mind is still acting like it’s [00:49:00] the real deal, even though you’re sitting in a room by yourself, right?

 Brad Robinson: It’s amazing how you can put the armor on before you go and do it. Later. It’s amazing.

Rita Black: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I mean, it kind of primes all the neural pathways you need. Primes the brain. Yep. Can I ask you, uh, a little bit about, uh, uh, you know, this is also the holiday season. I’m just thinking about some other things that might be up for people is the anxiety of expectations.

Rita Black: You know, the expectations. All these expectations seem to flood in around the holidays. Expectations of. You should be social expectations that you have to buy all these presents. Expectations that, you know, like it seems like we are so busy now in our digital world that the holidays, you know, which used to be, well, I don’t know.

Rita Black: I sound like a [00:50:00] very ancient person, but when, in the old days when people prior to the digital revolution, um, people had, so, you know, people were anxious in the prior to the digital age too, around the holidays. ’cause there’s just, but for those people who are running households or. Have multiple grandchildren or like, it just then ratchets up because now we have to do the holiday baking and now we have to, we have these expectations of who we need to be in order to be loved.

Rita Black: Right. And to be, to make a difference and to do the holidays. Right. You know, we, you know, a lot of people who suffer from anxiety are perfectionists. Right? Yeah. So, so, uh, do you have any thoughts about how one might. Like you said, kind of manage that brain clutter of like, gotta do this and I gotta do that, and they expect me to.

 Brad Robinson: Yeah. Uh, it, it’ll sound basic. Um, but I think everyone [00:51:00] already knows this just to write. It all down. Have a first thing is have a calendar up in your room. You know, the days that you need to go to your aunts and the day when you need to go to your folks or whatever. All of this stuff, one weekend, this one weekend, that here and there, have that calendar, have that visual that, that really changed my life.

 Brad Robinson: Um, when I was suffering from anxiety, having a calendar in my room, always writing on it. Um, in writing lists down too, what you need to get or, and not, not overdo it set like a goal of how many gifts per person. I, I mean, that stresses me out. It really does. Um, you know, it, it got really bad. I remember one year I would just buy too many gifts and I would just, I’d be like, why did I do that?

 Brad Robinson: Because I was all over the place. I would see something, I would like, oh, I’d probably like that. And then, you know. At the end of the day, they don’t really like it. Right. It’s like you kind of the impulsive [00:52:00] buying. Uh, I’m a bad gift giver, by the way, so it’s nice that my wife does most of that. Oh, that’s good.

 Brad Robinson: You’ve designated for She’s really good at it. I’m, I think, you know, something is good for somebody and then it turns out it’s like bad idea. I, I’m just really bad. But yeah, there’s, I think just organizing it. Via writing stuff down. Um, yeah, like if you’re socially anxious, do the exercises before the get together.

 Brad Robinson: Um, and also I had another thing about what we were saying earlier about the time of season and the anxiety. If that, if you’re like going into the season, you’re like, oh my God, how am I gonna get through all those dark days and the snow and all of that? I would say for me, what. Because this really bothered me.

 Brad Robinson: Those that time try and [00:53:00] add sacred time and, and. Make it like a cozy, sacred time. So I really looked forward to going into a coffee shop on a cold winter day, sitting down, having a tea and a book, looking out the window being cozy. Minimizing your life. Mm-hmm. Don’t. Be like watching TV and you know, that doesn’t help your anxiety at all.

 Brad Robinson: Add time where you like, you can just enjoy. Maybe you’re going for a hike in the snow, you have your gear on, you grab your coffee or tea, go for the hike. Um, add some of that time where you’re like, I really can’t wait to just go and snuggle up in a coffee shop. Listen to something on my phone, podcast, or stare at the window.

 Brad Robinson: I always. I always look forward to doing stuff like that because it’s just, you know, makes me, you know, something. We need something to look forward to. We need something to kind of get us going, um, and to relax [00:54:00] ourselves because, you know, we live in a stressful age. This is the age of anxiety, right? It we’re more surrounded by comfort stimuli and, um, and, but we’re feeling more miserable and anxious than ever.

 Brad Robinson: You know, we have to, you know, find time where we separate ourselves from people things and have just be with ourselves.

Rita Black: Right. To kind of like bring down all that brain stimulation too. Mm-hmm.

 Brad Robinson: And it’ll make the season a lot better. It did for me. It really helped. Or I would take an online course if you’re interested in something.

 Brad Robinson: Like, I was interested in psychology because I was suffering. So if you’re like suffering from anxiety. Take some cheap online thing, course about, I don’t know, like CBT or something, and you’ll like sit in a coffee shop on your laptop or something and do, and it will be like, I really enjoyed that, you know, [00:55:00] because I’m helping myself.

 Brad Robinson: But it’s, you know,

Rita Black: it’s focusing your mind.

 Brad Robinson: Yeah, it’s focusing my mind.

Rita Black: Yeah.

 Brad Robinson: Yeah. We, we need to do that.

Rita Black: Wow. That’s wonderful. I, this has been a really great conversation as far as opening up some ideas for people for the holidays, especially that social anxiety. Yeah. Brad, if somebody wants to get ahold of you or be in your world, um, how can they do that?

Rita Black: How can they access more, Brad?

 Brad Robinson: Well, they can go to my YouTube channel, uh, the anxiety project. Uh. And you can check out my podcast at the Anxiety Project podcast. It’s anywhere you listen to podcast, Spotify, wherever Apple, just search it up. Um. Uh, there’s a lot of episodes on there, but if you at the top, there’s a search bar, and if you’re interested in agoraphobia, social anxiety, ego, [00:56:00] or like, you know, routines, symptoms of health, anxiety, symptoms of anxiety, whatever, depression, depersonalization, um, just search it up.

 Brad Robinson: There’s a podcast on it, and there’s probably like three or four on it. I’ll go check it out. And, uh, my website is unplug anxiety.com. And this has been a lot of fun.

Rita Black: It’s always a pleasure to talk with you, Brad, and, um, I appreciate, uh, what you brought to our conversation today. Um, I’ll look forward to having you back on the Thinking Podcast when we can talk about another form of anxiety.

Rita Black: ’cause we certainly know there’s lots of them.

 Brad Robinson: Yeah, it’s. It’s,

Rita Black: uh, it’s growing for sure. Yeah. Well, I hope you and your family have a lovely holiday season. Thank you for being here today with me. Thank you. It was a pleasure. Thank you Brad, and [00:57:00] I am also dropping a link to one of Brad’s podcasts called The Heart of Social Anxiety, where he dives deeper into managing social anxiety, along with links to check him out in my show notes.

Rita Black: So get more Brad there and have a great week. And remember that the key and probably the only key to unlocking the door of the weight struggle is inside you. So keep listening and find it. I will be here with you to kick off the big Thanksgiving weekend next week. Take care. Do you wanna dive deeper into the mindset of long-term weight release?

Rita Black: Head on over to www. Shift Weight mastery.com. That’s www shift weight mastery.com, where you’ll find numerous tools and resources to help you unlock your mind for permanent weight release [00:58:00] tips, strategies, and more. And be sure to check the show notes to learn more about my book From Fat to Thin Thinking.

Rita Black: Unlock your mind for permanent weight [00:59:00] loss.