[00:00:00] Rita Black: Today I am speaking to Joanne, who shares how growing up in a family of nine taught her how to eat fast and left her struggling with portions for years. We talk about the challenges of menopause, caregiving, and weight gain, and how Joanne used the shift process to create a powerful vision that helped her achieve and now maintain.

[00:00:22] Rita Black: Her ideal weight. So come on in.

[00:00:33] Rita Black: Did you know that our struggle with weight doesn’t start with the food on your plate or get fixed in the gym? Welcome, welcome. 80% September. Everyone come on in. Great to have you here. Thank you for coming you to unlocking long-term weight release and management begin. See you and thank you for being here week after week for, hi there.

[00:00:50] Rita Black: I’m Rita Black. I’m ongoing conversation. I’m a clinical hypnotherapist, weight loss expert, bestselling author, and the creator of the Shift Weight Mastery Process. And not only have I helped thousands of people over the past 20 years. Achieve long-term weight mastery. I am also a former weight struggler, carb addict and binge eater, and after two decades of failed diets and fad weight loss programs, I lost 40 pounds with the help of hypnosis.

[00:01:20] Rita Black: Not only did I release all that weight, I have kept it off for 25 years. Enter the Thin Thinking Podcast where you too will learn how to remove the mental roadblocks that keep you struggling. I’ll give you the thin thinking tools, skills, and insights to help you develop the mindset you need, not [00:01:40] only to achieve your ideal weight.

[00:01:42] Rita Black: But to stay there long term and live your best life. Sound good? Let’s get started. I am looking forward to introducing you to Joanne, who has released over 60 pounds, and you are gonna love her and all the tidbits from the interview. Now, truth be told, during the interview I had a little mental blip on a term that, came up when Joanne was talking about it. When you lose weight on a diet and you think you know it all and then you’re like, okay, I’ve got it from here and then it all falls apart. It’s related to this thing that I am now gonna talk to you about called the Dunning Kruger Effect.

[00:02:21] Rita Black: I could not remember it at the time when I spoke with Joanne, I was really like, it’s one of those things like, ah, I’ve gotta remember that thing. After the interview, I remembered it. And I wanna talk to you a little bit about it ’cause it’s super fascinating. And before we dive in with Joanne.

[00:02:37] Rita Black: Because the Dunning the Dunning Kruger effect is just a well-documented cognitive bias where people with low ability, low knowledge, or low expertise in a certain area tend to overestimate their competence. This is just a real brain thing. And it happens. Why it happens is lack of awareness or self-awareness.

[00:02:58] Rita Black: Incompetence tends to rob people, not only of the ability to do something well, but also of the ability to recognize that they’re doing it poorly and then also secondly, metacognition gaps. To accurately judge skill, you need the very knowledge and skills [00:03:20] that you may be lacking. Third the illusion of superiority.

[00:03:26] Rita Black: I love that the illusion of superiority. People often wanna see themselves in a positive light, which fuels overconfidence. So this all falls along what they call the classic curve. The effect is often illustrated with a curve that looks like this. The first one is peak of mount stupid, and That’s right.

[00:03:45] Rita Black: You’ve heard me that right? That’s mount. Stupid like a mountain called stupid, and that is where beginners gain a little knowledge and feel overconfident. And then the second is the Valley of Despair. As they learn more, they realize how much they don’t know. And confidence plummets. Third slope of enlightenment.

[00:04:12] Rita Black: With sustained practice, competence grows alongside more realistic self-assessment. And lastly, plateau of Mastery. True experts recognize both their strengths and their limits of their knowledge. Interesting. Huh? So examples would be a new driver who thinks they’re already great at driving after a few lessons.

[00:04:34] Rita Black: AKA, my son, and then I love this one. A novice investor. How many of you know somebody like this, a novice investor who believes that they can easily beat the market after reading one article, A k, a, my husband. So in short, the Dunning Kruger effect is about the double burden of incompetence. People are not only wrong, but too unskilled [00:05:00] to know that they’re wrong.

[00:05:01] Rita Black: And I think that this really distinguishes the difference between diets and, trying to lose weight. Because often we lose weight on a diet and we learn the diet really well and we say, I’ve got this weight loss thing down because we know this diet, but because we really haven’t adapted and learned like really.

[00:05:21] Rita Black: Learned the mindset and skills of weight management. We’re just, doing the diet. We quickly end up seeing that we really actually in that valley despair, real recognizing that we really don’t know everything that we need to know and, all unravels and we end up gaining the weight back and being in that valley of despair, like I said.

[00:05:43] Rita Black: So true weight mastery like what we really focus on in the shift weight mastery process is really about building skills from the inside out and really working on that enlightenment, moving into mastery mindset. And we do have our live fall. 2025 shift weight mastery process coming up very soon.

[00:06:07] Rita Black: We have a few places left. It begins on the 17th with over a week of prep, and then we div dive on the 26th of September into a 30 day process with daily hypnosis, meditation and coaching. I say it’s live, but it’s online live. And there’s only certain live elements to it, but you can go to www.shiftweightmastery.com/fall FALL to learn more.

[00:06:32] Rita Black: And the next time we will be doing a live event like this. We’ll be in the spring, so in April I believe. If you wanna catch [00:06:40] it, now is a great time. There’s just so much great information. If you go to www.shiftweightmastery.com/fall, you can learn all about it, all about our guarantee, all about the dates.

[00:06:54] Rita Black: Everything you know is on that page, so please go check it out. You now are gonna dive in with me to my interview with Joanne, who will actually also be a coach at this upcoming shift. We are here with the lovely Joanne on the Thin Thinking Podcast. Welcome Joanne in Massachusetts. Glad to be here.

[00:07:16] Rita Black: We were just chatting away and I said, wait, we’ve gotta turn on record. So thank you for being here. Joanne is newly celebrating maintenance, so we were talking about that and we’ll talk about that a little later. But I wanted to thank you for being here today and just to say how I usually like to start our conversations is to ask you.

[00:07:39] Rita Black: To tell us a little bit about your beginning story, your origin story of struggling with weight as we all have been there.

[00:07:47] Joanne: I’ve yo-yo for years. Up and down, and when I was raising children, I’d lose a little bit and then, and then I, always put myself last. And I was never really an unhealthy eater or it was more portions.

[00:08:01] Joanne: I might, yeah, definitely portions was more my issue.

[00:08:04] Rita Black: Can I ask you how old you were when you first knew you were struggling with weight?

[00:08:10] Joanne: I always felt, even when I was in junior high, I like my pooch. I used to look at my, my, what I call my pooch and look at other people and say they don’t have one.

[00:08:19] Joanne: So I [00:08:20] think I just, I always felt like that probably from junior high on Okay. That I wasn’t

[00:08:25] Rita Black: happy with where I was. And I think also you and I grew up in that seventies aesthetic, which was super skinny. Yeah, the skinny jeans and the skinny girls and, what was I gonna ask you? Oh, you mentioned coming from a big family.

[00:08:41] Rita Black: How big was your family? I was the youngest of nine. Oh, wow. That’s amazing. And because we were talking about sitting down to meals with your parents and you had food in front of you and. I remember I wasn’t in a big family, but I had three, there were three kids in my family, but I remember, ’cause my parents, were raised in the depression.

[00:09:06] Rita Black: Anyway, what was put in front of you. And there was this competition eating going on. ’cause it was like. If you didn’t, if you didn’t grab it, somebody else was, I don’t know. I think it was,

[00:09:15] Joanne: yes. Yes. I think there was a lot of that too, because I eat, I tend to eat very fast, and I think that all came from back then too.

[00:09:23] Rita Black: There’s something primitive about that. I am sure, because I’ve talked to a lot of women who, they were thinner before they got into a relationship, like with their husbands or a boyfriend. Then once, once they started sitting down with a man and they were eating more portions. There was this sort of like com, a com, I don’t wanna call it competitive eating, but matching what they’re doing and it’s like totally subconscious.

[00:09:46] Rita Black: I don’t know. What do you think?

[00:09:49] Joanne: I just I just think I think we, I’m not really sure. I just know that I always eat really fast. But I have slowed down a lot because now I know to take breaths. [00:10:00] Yeah. I don’t know where, like you said, maybe that does come from something very primitive in our, ancestry where we just

[00:10:06] Rita Black: eat.

[00:10:07] Rita Black: Yeah. I can only imagine too, being in a clan as big as yours that. Energy when you sat down to a table with yes, and I, other people and a lot of

[00:10:18] Joanne: boys. There were six boys, only six boys and three girls, and there was a very large age difference between myself and the girls, the old other girls.

[00:10:25] Joanne: They were, I was the younger youngest and they were in the older set. Lot of boy, lot of, a lot of testosterone energy. Yes.

[00:10:32] Rita Black: Wow.

[00:10:33] Joanne: That’s, and did you guys have a

[00:10:34] Rita Black: dining room table big enough to party all of you? Or? We had a big

[00:10:38] Joanne: kitchen table I was at, but when, if all of us were to the ga I always joke that I was at the kids’ table till I was, in my twenties or something.

[00:10:47] Joanne: I always joke about that.

[00:10:48] Rita Black: So there was a, two tables, like for the adults and then for the, or the older on

[00:10:52] Joanne: holidays and whatnot. There was, yes, for sure.

[00:10:55] Rita Black: Oh, funny. Yeah, that makes sense.

[00:10:57] Joanne: Yeah.

[00:10:58] Rita Black: So you started off like feeling a little insecure about your body. What was the first diet that you went on?

[00:11:03] Rita Black: Like what, when did you first try to make shit.

[00:11:07] Joanne: I never went on any, other than the program many of us have been to the meetings.

[00:11:12] Rita Black: We, Joanna and I were joking we’ll call it the program that will not be named.

[00:11:19] Joanne: I went on Weight Watchers when probably in my thirties ’cause I did lose weight, like what?

[00:11:24] Joanne: I got married late in my late twenties. Okay. Lost a lot of weight just from stress.

[00:11:29] Rita Black: And

[00:11:29] Joanne: then I got, and so I was like, oh, I didn’t even try, but then I got pregnant like immediately and I gained all that back and a whole lot more. And so probably in my thirties after I had both my [00:11:40] kids is when I really started to, I do have a memory though.

[00:11:43] Joanne: When I was my early twenties, a man I worked with, I don’t know why you would tell a young girl this. He said, oh I saw you outside the other day and I pointed to you and for my son, and he’s, but he told me you were fat. Oh,

[00:11:56] Rita Black: okay. There’s two things completely, like your jaw would drop.

[00:12:00] Rita Black: Like not only is he is I was pointing at you for my son. And I’m 65 now, and I remember that very vividly, oh yeah. I remember those remarks too. Oh and people said them with such ease. Yeah. Like, why don’t you say that to somebody like, and I

[00:12:15] Joanne: think back and I’m like, I wasn’t really fat.

[00:12:17] Joanne: I wasn’t a, I wasn’t a twig, but I wasn’t really

[00:12:20] Rita Black: fat.

[00:12:20] Joanne: Oh, yeah. The male game, whatever. That whole

[00:12:23] Rita Black: thing. And

[00:12:24] Joanne: the

[00:12:24] Rita Black: barometer is Yeah. The whole. Yeah, that’s also wrong. But anyway okay. So that kind of hit a cord

[00:12:33] Joanne: within you. Yeah. Yeah. As long as I lived at home, there was a lot of, lived at home with my parents. There was a lot of approval too, I think about around eating, like eating everything and that kind of thing. Yeah. You’re a good girl. You’ve

[00:12:45] Rita Black: cleaned your

[00:12:45] Joanne: plate. Yeah. Yeah. That kind of stuff.

[00:12:48] Rita Black: Yeah.

[00:12:48] Joanne: So yeah, in my thirties and forties I’d go up and down a little bit, up and down.

[00:12:53] Joanne: In fact I was just watching my retirement video a couple days ago and I could see, even in my, I could notice my weight fluctuate through the years. I’m like, oh, that’s when I was so it was interesting. And then in my mid fifties I lost a significant amount and then swore that was it.

[00:13:12] Joanne: I will never, I was so proud ’cause I had never been that successful and swore I would never ever [00:13:20] be back there again. And then lo and behold, a lot of stuff happened and then I ended up. Gaining it all back and then some.

[00:13:28] Rita Black: I know you were mentioning that you were care caregiving.

[00:13:34] Rita Black: And that was a time. When you were, remind me so that your timeline was, your mom was sick and you were taking care of her. And that was when you were on gaining back or when you were making a decision to take? I actually was

[00:13:50] Joanne: doing really well. ‘Cause I was making sure I did take care of myself while I was taking care of her.

[00:13:55] Joanne: Okay. Actually her last. Lucid words to me were, take care of your health. So now I always, that’s been resonating with me lately. She would be very proud. So yes. And then, but then it was creeping back, right? Right after she passed, it’s had started creeping and I’d say, oh, it’s only a few pounds.

[00:14:14] Joanne: It’s only a few pounds. And, and then my best friend got. It was less than a year, maybe a year and a half later, got a terrible diagnosis. So I was a caretaker again for her because she became paralyzed. And we were, when people are ill, what do people bring? They bring casserole. So every night I would go over there and as a joke, say, oh, what do we having for dinner tonight?

[00:14:37] Joanne: And it would be. Whatever casserole was there. And so

[00:14:40] Rita Black: hamburger helper it was

[00:14:42] Joanne: a lot of a lot of rich, a lot of rich, casserole. Yeah. And then over time, yeah, I think it just a lot happened and it just, and then COVID and then she passed, then COVID happened, and I think we all had weight issues.

[00:14:57] Rita Black: Yeah, that’s a just a, an [00:15:00] a carb festival. Yeah. Festival of Carbs. I wanna go back to when you released a lot of weight on the program that shall not be named. No, I’m I know you released like 40 something pounds. 46 pounds, yeah. 46 pounds. And I remember going to Weight Watchers and way back in the day and it was back when you had your little card, did you ever go Yep. Had the card. Oh, yeah. Had the card down and the whole thing. Okay. I think we all have that emblazoned, have the little points finder.

[00:15:31] Joanne: Yeah. Have the little points finder that you spun. Yeah.

[00:15:34] Rita Black: Oh, I now see I didn’t have that. I was old. Yeah I was old school Weight Watchers before points like weight.

[00:15:41] Rita Black: Yep. But Joanne, you mentioned something that I wanted to talk about a little bit, which was reaching your ideal weight or getting, losing that weight going. I’m good now. I’m good. I don. I don’t need to go back to the meetings. I don’t need to go, and again I’m not either here nor there about meetings, but I wanted to just talk about that little I’m good mindset because I think our listeners will, I’m not just talking about you, but I’m just talking about this general, like we get it’s this weird. Brain thing. It’s not us. Like we’ll get to that ideal way and we’ll be like, okay, I’ve got it now. Like it, it is I’ve got it now I’ve got it. Exactly. I’m good. I don’t really have to measure. I can eyeball that. I’m good. Yeah. I’m good. I can loosen my grip.

[00:16:29] Rita Black: Yeah. And I’m good. And it is we ran the race. The race is over, we get our prize. And then, and it’s, and I was telling to [00:16:40] Joanne, I, there is a brain thing and it’s called something and I don’t know the name of it and I could ask Chachi pt, I’m sure. But anyway, I’m sure you all can relate to this feeling of hubris that is I have it now and then, but we don’t have it at all.

[00:16:57] Rita Black: Like we have it all. It’s a fake sort of. Got it. Yeah. And then that’s when things start to spiral. And then from an in inside out perspective, it’s I don’t have it. And then there’s this fear and frantic trying to grasp it back.

[00:17:14] Joanne: And then I don’t wanna get on

[00:17:16] Rita Black: the scale either.

[00:17:16] Rita Black: And then it gets to a point you don’t wanna get on the scale. I don’t wanna get on the scale because I’m scared. And then you get into major restriction like, Ugh, I gained five pounds. Ugh, I gotta just be good. And then that starts, that boomerang like being good, being bad, and then back in the old familiar territory.

[00:17:34] Rita Black: But I just wanted, thank you for just letting me sidetrack us over to that. Because it is such a familiar place where a lot of people, and I just want you to know it’s not your fault. Our brain will just do that. Yeah. It’s super weird and you gotta be aware of it, like like that, like I’m good.

[00:17:50] Rita Black: I got it. Yeah.

[00:17:52] Joanne: I ate that last time and I gained weight, or I didn’t gain weight so I can eat it again and not gain, that kind of thing.

[00:17:58] Rita Black: Yeah. Yeah. And then we do enough of that hooks our carb zombie, and then we’re off to the races. Yeah. The whole thing. And then unfortunately, it sounds like you had.

[00:18:10] Rita Black: As we all do at some point our life a number of, just like your mom passed, your friend passed COVID. And it was just one thing after the other. [00:18:20] And so it was not only just trying to manage your way, but trying to manage your life. Your inner life. Did you emotionally eat in that time or was it just you were not aware of portions and you were just over portions?

[00:18:34] Joanne: I probably did. I know when I went to for my friend’s house and I was eating casserole, I’m sure part of that was emotional For sure.

[00:18:41] Rita Black: Yeah.

[00:18:41] Joanne: Without realizing it was. Yeah, for sure.

[00:18:44] Rita Black: Yeah, definitely.

[00:18:45] Joanne: Yeah, and like you said we do, and I was thinking today, like I have, my, my sister has cancer and some other things, and I’m like, there will always be things in life that are ha like you just said, there’s always gonna be things.

[00:18:58] Joanne: Yeah. So I. But at the time I was like maybe my body’s hanging on to all that stuff that happened.

[00:19:04] Rita Black: You had also mentioned menopause and we were talking about, I don’t wanna call it a myth, but I wanna call it like, there’s a lot of marketing and a lot of. Mythology around not being able to lose weight when you’re in menopause.

[00:19:20] Rita Black: When you’re in menopause. And you lost all that weight with Weight Watchers during menopause. Correct. And you did gain it back, but then it, you’ve, lost almost 60 pounds. I think there’s this thing I know from measuring metabolisms that our metabolism does decline. During menopause.

[00:19:38] Rita Black: So if you’re, you cannot eat the same amount that you used to eat prior to menopause for most men and expect to weigh the same. You just can’t. Like my doctor

[00:19:49] Joanne: had said that.

[00:19:50] Rita Black: Yeah. And it’s, that’s, once you own that and not become a victim of it woe is me, but okay.

[00:19:56] Rita Black: Menopause sucks, but that’s one of the rules of menopause is [00:20:00] like your metabolism mine. ’cause I measured, mine declined. Somewhere between 250 and 300 calories per day, which is a lot, and that is, if you didn’t check that’s a pound per week. It, you can check, you can chug on some weight really fast if you’re not becoming, so the thing with menopause, I say it’s more of a mental reset than a physical one.

[00:20:24] Rita Black: ‘Cause you have to just re-see what is enough for you and your body at this point in your life. And definitely feeding your body, because I don’t know if you felt this, but when we hit menopause, our, we all know our hormones change, but our blood sugar insulin sensitivity changes, but, if you I remember just, I have so many students and clients who will say. I never had a problem with alcohol before and now I’m drinking more, or I never had a problem with sweets before and now I am just like this total carbo holic. And so if you’re not aware of that, if you’re not aware of the decline, yeah, it can.

[00:21:02] Rita Black: It can seem like. I cannot lose weight. If your expectation is you haven’t you should be able to, lose it just by making a little alteration, but it’s really a mental reset, anyway, I thought I would digress and just mention our listeners who are maybe in postmenopausal as well, it’s just like menopause, end post menopause.

[00:21:24] Rita Black: Our metabolism declines, our body’s chemistry does change. So we do need to attune to that, but it’s completely doable. And it’s not that bad once you take charge of it, it’s just okay, cool. I

[00:21:35] Joanne: got this. And I also know, like my body, I have to, if I don’t [00:21:40] move my body. That it comes on real fast that I know about myself for sure.

[00:21:44] Joanne: I,

[00:21:45] Rita Black: yeah, and I think also tuning into everything that’s being said now about muscle retention and just that we as older women, just to move our butts and definitely exercise our muscles. So now, what brought you to hypnosis? What was your like journey there and, you were here, you were in this yeah, it was yeah, like it was post COVID. You were struggling. It was like your grandkids had been born, or?

[00:22:12] Joanne: Yes. I had a grandchild born in 2021 and 20 23. And it was really, it was like I knew that there was a lot of clothes I couldn’t fit into, but it was really when I saw pictures.

[00:22:24] Joanne: With

[00:22:24] Rita Black: my

[00:22:25] Joanne: grandkids. And I went, oh my I couldn’t believe how big I looked in the pictures. Even bigger than what I saw in the mirror. I was like, wow. And and then I got on a scale one day and I really said, wow. They were numbers that were scary to me. Yeah. Or 200 wasn’t all that far away.

[00:22:41] Joanne: And for me that was. And my doctor had mentioned it to me last year at our, my appointment. She had mentioned my weight to me and she told me to just eat a little old lady does, like just eat a little bit. But this year she wanted your name and she wrote your name down because I just saw her not long ago.

[00:22:58] Joanne: Oh, that’s. Sweet. She was very pleased. And then, and I had hypnosis for some reason in the back of my head because I know people who had lost, who had quit smoking through the years Yes. On hypnosis. And you just popped up one day on social media. It was either Instagram, like I said, or Facebook, and there you were offering your masterclass.

[00:23:19] Joanne: And I [00:23:20] said it’s free. Why not? I’ll try it. And. I’ll tell you I felt a shift from that very first day. I just, something shifted in me and I joined. After that and have been religiously following. And it’s been wonderful. It’s really been, just an incredible journey. And that I’ve, I love learning.

[00:23:41] Joanne: I’m like, oh, that’s just learning about what it was. Oh, it was the rebel that would say. You only live once. You can eat that. Or that kind of stuff. And

[00:23:52] Rita Black: learning about all the different parts in you.

[00:23:54] Joanne: Yes. And I was like, oh, that explains it. That explains, things that happened and the inner coach and that I’ve just loved and just the mind shift of, I love when you said I, I don’t say anymore ’cause I was great at saying I can’t eat that, I can’t eat that. And you have allowed me to reframe and saying I choose not to eat that. And it really does make a difference.

[00:24:19] Rita Black: Oh

[00:24:20] Joanne: yeah. I choose not to eat that. Of course I can eat it. I have a choice not to eat it.

[00:24:24] Joanne: Yeah. And just told, gives you agency. Yes. Because I’m like, she’s right. Of course I could choose to eat it. I choose not to. So just all the mindfulness that you have provided has been just amazing and the nine skills. And there’s just so many, I just can’t say enough about the process.

[00:24:44] Joanne: I didn’t, and I think I told you I didn’t like the calorie thing at first, and it was a very scary work. I

[00:24:51] Rita Black: don’t think there’s ever been a person who’s you know what, Rita? I am just so excited. About tracking topics. It’s a scary word, I think for many of [00:25:00] us. It’s A-P-T-S-D word because maybe that’s, yeah.

[00:25:03] Rita Black: It really takes us into, I’ve, ’cause I’ve thought long and hard about this because what Joan’s talking about, for those of you who are un like not shifted or haven’t done the process is, we track calories, but as scientists and as. To use our brain more effectively rather than being a dieter and here’s 1200 calories and you’ve gotta, it it’s it’s like you are being allotted.

[00:25:29] Rita Black: I, I wanna say it’s, it puts us in that shame place we all felt when we were dieting and everybody else around us could eat whatever they wanted, and we were like, you can only have this because you. Are this way you’re a failure and, or you’re, fat or you’re not a, and so you’re one of those people.

[00:25:49] Rita Black: So go, it is go sit in the corner and count in your calories. Yeah. It’s this whole deep, dark thing. Yeah. And I think that what we are about is getting clear and maybe you can talk about like how what your experience of that was. So you were bummed. You were like, dang, I gotta count calories.

[00:26:09] Rita Black: Yeah. Damn it. And but you

[00:26:10] Joanne: explained it so well in one of your in, in our shift process, you explained it so well and I always take notes about, that it’s an energy, that it’s a unit of energy. Yeah. That’s and you explained, the 3,500 calories would be a pound.

[00:26:26] Joanne: And it just it all made sense. And I wasn’t, I have learned so much from my app and I use Lose It, and I’ve learned so much about the content of the food. The. Carbs and the [00:26:40] protein and it’s just, I don’t really look at the calories so much. Sometimes my friend will say, oh my gosh, that’s a lot for a snack.

[00:26:46] Joanne: ‘Cause she just started, and she’ll say how many calories? I’ll say 150 or whatever. That’s a lot for a snack. And so it’s

[00:26:53] Rita Black: oh those smoothies.

[00:26:55] Joanne: Yeah. Yeah. That’s funny.

[00:26:58] Rita Black: Can I just pause and talk about something that you’re talking about that is tuning into your body and using calories to really go, oh, what’s the value of this?

[00:27:09] Rita Black: Looking at oh, it’s 150 calories. What, but what is the value? Like it’s gonna stabilize me for three hours. It’s going to, keep me going and within the context of what my body’s energy needs for weight release are. It’s not a big percentage, so I’m cool. So it allows you agency, it allows you to make your own choices.

[00:27:27] Rita Black: You don’t have to pay attention to anything outside other than what works for you and your body at whatever time. Exactly. So that’s part of it. But I think it also allows because people are like I am a mindful eat. I was like this actually allows you to be, and because mindful eating can be weird.

[00:27:45] Rita Black: Weirdly good and bad as well, because we were like I wasn’t mindful when I ate, so I was bad. I was, rather than going, I think of mindful eating as oh, when I eat this, I know I’m gonna feel like this and I choose this because of how I wanna feel. Or, I’m choosing this, treat.

[00:28:05] Rita Black: Like this caloric, decadent treat because. I can, and I really want that, and I’m gonna really enjoy it and savor it. I don’t know, I just wanted to say that too. ’cause I, I always like talking about the layers of complexity of this that is so [00:28:20] nuanced. I think people don’t, it’s so black and white for people, but really, it’s so great and it allows you access to so much information about yourself and about your body and how it works and how it processes food. So anyway, now we can move on. So anyway, so you’re, but now the hypnosis for you, for people who don’t, haven’t done hypnosis yet, or Don Dunno, like what was like. What was, did you have any fear about like mind control or were you, because you were seeking it out, not so worried about that?

[00:28:55] Joanne: No, I wasn’t, no, I was hoping that it would do what it did and it Okay. That I really shifted and just the vision of yeah, I don’t really want that. Or, or I can eat just this amount and how hungry am I, because I don’t ever get to that oh full. Feeling anymore,

[00:29:13] Rita Black: talk to us about that. Like what was the change for you in your process? You said you, you were a healthy eater, but you just ate too much and mostly Yeah, people can relate to that.

[00:29:25] Joanne: Yeah. I probably was like an 80 20 person and and, but it was, like I said, I, I love salad, but it would be, I could eat three huge bowls of salad or popcorn was my great, just, I’ll say wheat, it’s, that was my snack.

[00:29:41] Joanne: I love popcorn, but I make it on the stove. It’s not, it’s not a high caloric snack. But I could eat the whole pan. And since I’ve been shifting, I can probably count the number of times I’ve made popcorn, eat it earlier in the day, and I can stop after two, three cups. Yeah.

[00:29:58] Joanne: And because I want [00:30:00] to, and I just don’t have the desire to have more. So yeah, it’s been the portions for me and knowing, when you and I talked about it earlier about, when we were kids, we were from that generation, you were expected to finish your food.

[00:30:13] Joanne: There was a lot of guilt knowing that I can, I was at breakfast with my sister yesterday, brunch, and there was tater tots, which I love. I had a couple. And then I left a ton on the plate, like knowing that it’s okay, I don’t have to finish everything. It’s okay to send it, to not

[00:30:32] Rita Black: eat it all.

[00:30:32] Joanne: Yeah. Yeah,

[00:30:33] Rita Black: I think negotiating that, like learning to get past that guilt, when Yeah. You came from that sort of. Upbringing where it was a big deal. If you left food on your plate. Yeah. That’s huge. But then also negotiating the part of you, the little kid in you that’s I want more.

[00:30:51] Rita Black: That and being, I think that’s powerful.

[00:30:54] Joanne: The three bite rule has been really worked well too. I think that really is, was very helpful too.

[00:30:59] Rita Black: Yeah. Joanne’s talking about like after three bites, the pleasure you get from most foods diminishes greatly, like from 90 to 20%.

[00:31:08] Rita Black: So we focus on if you’re going to eat something decadent, eat three bites that And you enjoy them. Yeah. Yeah. And what, tell me will you tell the audience, ’cause you told me this great story about you and your dress. So I

[00:31:24] Joanne: had an award ceremony in 2000 17 when I had lost, when I was down quite a bit.

[00:31:30] Joanne: And I had a dress on that I just loved. There’s a public figure and she had a very similar dress and I said, I love that dress. I wore the dress that night. It’s a. And I can fit into it [00:31:40] again. So whenever in, during the hypnosis, the meditation, when Rita would say, envision, you know where you wanna be I always had that dress on ’cause I wanna be able to fit back in that dress.

[00:31:52] Joanne: A friend of mine, a good, very good friend and colleague who is now a shifter she was with me that night and. We did not know this about each other until we started talking, and the dress she had on that night is also her vision of what she wish she wants to be. So we are going to recreate our picture when she gets down and fits into her dress.

[00:32:17] Joanne: So that was really neat when she’s, when we talk, started talking and she said, oh my gosh, that’s my vision too, to get into that dress I had on that night. Because we both had felt really good in it. So yeah,

[00:32:28] Rita Black: so

[00:32:28] Joanne: that’s

[00:32:29] Rita Black: so cool. I love that. I, and I love that your. Shifting with a friend now, I think it does make a huge difference.

[00:32:37] Joanne: Except she pulls out the Lose it at Dinner, which out to dinner, it’s like, she’s a newbie. Don’t do it. No, I’m I am. I am totally kidding. Other than your friend. How did you have to wrangle family to support you or were people fairly supportive of your journey?

[00:32:56] Joanne: I was very private. I’m very private about my journey.

[00:32:59] Joanne: Okay. But I knew who I could talk to about it because I think one thing and in my friend and I have talked, like when you gain it back, you are embarrassed. Because you know that people have no people they have to notice that oh, she’s gained it back. And so I didn’t really say too much to my husband ’cause I’m like, oh, he’ll probably think I’ll just gain it back [00:33:20] again.

[00:33:20] Joanne: So I just, I had a few friends who. The ones who have also struggled with weight, and I knew that they would, so they’re the ones that really, you know my daughter is very respectful about women’s bodies and not mentioning, good, bad. And so when I started to release I, and she’s in her thirties, I said, didn’t you realize she said, yes, but I don’t think sh she just believes you shouldn’t comment on a woman’s body whether they lose weight or not.

[00:33:45] Joanne: Although she recently told me, mom, it is very obvious. So she was just being respectful about that, saying, that’s just her belief system that, but so I really reached out to the people. The few friends I have that have also struggled because they could relate to that.

[00:34:00] Rita Black: Yeah, it’s it’s such a, gaining weight is such a horrific feeling, becau, because unlike if you were struggling with like drugs or.

[00:34:13] Rita Black: Alcohol even, you can hide it. Like it’s not as visible. Yeah. Yeah. And the weight thing, it’s such a shame spiral. I’m not saying drugs and alcohol aren’t a shame spiral. They’re assault. No, I get you or a hundred percent sure, but but the public sort of you can’t hide what you’re doing.

[00:34:37] Rita Black: Yes. Yeah. Yes. Absolutely. I remember in, I remember in a Weight Watchers class, like in the 1970s or eighties, it must have been the late seventies. The leader said something about yeah, it’s it’s like when you eat something, it’s like or she was like, but if you ate something and you’ve got polka dots all over you.

[00:34:58] Rita Black: You might think twice about [00:35:00] putting that in your mouth, but sometimes you can fake it till you make it like, like you can eat a couple of candy bars and it doesn’t immediately show up on the scale. I think that’s what she was talking about. Yeah. You

[00:35:11] Joanne: were talking about that today in one, one of the sessions.

[00:35:14] Joanne: I listened to how it may show up two days later, may not show up that day, but a couple days later.

[00:35:19] Rita Black: Yeah. My God. I know. And oh, did I cheat on? And the Weight Watchers was like, that was the thing, it’s like I would starve the day. Did you start the day before you were waiting? I lived in Seattle and it was cold and I wore the thinnest pants and this little t-shirt.

[00:35:35] Rita Black: Yes.

[00:35:35] Joanne: Yes.

[00:35:36] Rita Black: No

[00:35:37] Joanne: shoes. Yes. And I said it in one of our meetings one time that it was such, when they handed you back your card after you weighed in, when they didn’t say anything, you knew my weight’s up and it might only have been a 0.2 or 0.8, but, and I just remember. That like sh shame or that disappointment.

[00:35:58] Joanne: You thought you had a great week and they, I just remember that feeling when they’d hand you back the card and not say anything, and it was like such a, yeah. Not

[00:36:08] Rita Black: pleasant feeling. Yeah. Yeah. It’s a trigger response, man. Yeah. It’s oh, and no wonder. Yeah. We all have scale

[00:36:16] Joanne: issues. Yeah. But you’ve made me, you have helped me to have a much more healthier relationship with the scale.

[00:36:22] Joanne: Yeah. Like when I get on and I can be on a plateau, like to the ounce on, on some days, and now I’m obviously maintaining, but just a much healthier, and to look at i’ve noticed when I eat out, even if I’ve eaten very healthy, there’s a lot of salt there. We guesstimate really when we [00:36:40] go to track our food when we’re eating out.

[00:36:41] Joanne: ’cause you don’t know for sure. Yeah, but I’ve noticed, and I just say it’s gotta be salt. Know or whatever. Yeah, I just have a

[00:36:48] Rita Black: healthier or just hidden carbs or things like that. Yeah. A lot of people don’t realize like butter they cook in. Yeah. Yeah. Those chefs are so insecure. They need to add salt.

[00:37:00] Rita Black: They, my husband was eating something that was, oh, a low carb thing. I don’t know what he was eating. Oh, like it was like baked beans or something and he’s oh, these are no sugar. I have a bite. And I had a bite of ’em. And they were so salty because I think instead of, sugar free stuff, now they.

[00:37:17] Rita Black: Put salt in, because you need something, right? So it’s wow, these are so salty. I can’t even eat them. But Joanne I wanna talk to you about maintenance. Oh we can. But the scale is like interesting too. I feel like, yeah. I mean we have such a crazy relationship with it and when, but when you do understand, like you’re saying, when you know, oh, I’ve gone out.

[00:37:41] Rita Black: I’ve had something to eat. You get on the scale, you’re up a couple of pounds and you are like that’s just ’cause it was salty last night. And there’s no freak out. Oh my God, I gained two pounds.

[00:37:52] Joanne: There’s

[00:37:52] Rita Black: so much power in that. But the scale isn’t always gonna tell you reflect accuracy, but it will.

[00:38:00] Rita Black: Over time reflect, that your gradual release consistency. Yeah. Yeah. Consistency. When you were getting towards maintenance, ’cause I know you’ve been in maintenance since your birthday in July, it, which is so cool. When you were getting there, did you have fear?

[00:38:17] Rita Black: I like to always look at that, a few [00:38:20] weeks before maintenance, Yeah. For you.

[00:38:24] Joanne: I did have fear. Because it’s scary because it’s always, it was never as hard to take it off as it was to keep it off. Yes. Astor, that was the hardest part, was keeping it off. So there was some fear in it, but then, one day I just said I have all these tools now that Rita has that’s given us all, the nine skills of and all the meditation and the hypno. There’s just so many things at my fingertips, which I didn’t have before. I didn’t have a toolbox. I don’t feel like I have a toolbox now.

[00:38:54] Joanne: Is it a little still a little yeah, A little bit. But I was thinking about it today and I said I’m doing the same thing that I’ve been doing since I started. I’m just now maintaining rather than releasing. Yeah.

[00:39:07] Rita Black: So

[00:39:07] Joanne: I’m looking at it like that and that, and then I will have to do this.

[00:39:11] Joanne: Previously that, that was another excuse. Oh, I, that’s not sustainable for the rest of my life, but it is, I know people who are, in aa, they have to use their 12 step program for the rest of their life, and I will have to use my tools for the rest of my life.

[00:39:25] Rita Black: Yeah. I mean I think they’re practical tools and what I have found for me is they are tools that allow me to be my best self. So I don’t find them, ’cause they’re really focused on my inner freedom. And I think that the longer your in maintenance and. I, we were talking before we turned on record.

[00:39:48] Rita Black: I was saying to Joanne, I think it takes about a year of maintaining before you really have that I not like that hubris. I’ve got this, but oh, you like this is mine. I own [00:40:00] this and this is me that my my, at my new weight.

[00:40:04] Joanne: One thing that’s been incredibly helpful too are the weekly goals, the monthly goals.

[00:40:08] Joanne: And I do that now. Even today. It was like for other things in my life, like today, it was like, okay, my goal is I wanna clean the refrigerator. But just and now it’s okay, one of my goals. A year from now, I’m gonna be where I am now. So that’s been really healthy to do the weekly goals and to be specific and the monthly goals.

[00:40:28] Joanne: That’s been really helpful. Yeah, and what I, and what Joanne’s talking about too is we, we have, we, in the shift, we get into parts. Integration like we have this critic. We really work with these ideas different parts of ourselves, the critic, the rebel, the coach. And when we’re developing that powerful coach, ’cause everybody who is listening, you have a powerful inner coach and the areas of your life that work, they’re your coach, is loud.

[00:41:00] Rita Black: But in the area of weight, usually our coaches. No voice and we have a very loud critic and we have a very loud rebel. So in the shift, we’re really focusing on developing that inner coach in that part of our life. So what she’s Joanne’s talking about is sitting down and creating that intimacy with this part of us.

[00:41:20] Rita Black: And the way we do that is we’ll sit down monthly and go, okay, what’s this month about? And what do I wanna create? Because it really is a creation. And like you said, for this week, you wanna create a clean refrigerator. Which I think is awesome. And we don’t really, we don’t really, in our busy lives prone to do that, is to create our life rather than [00:41:40] defensively live it.

[00:41:41] Rita Black: And I think that’s what sitting down with your coach can start to create is like the sense of living your life and creating your life rather than waking up and going, how do I, defensively oh, this is happening, let me respond to it. Reacting versus acting and creating. So I love that, and I love that you like that structure.

[00:42:04] Rita Black: It creates a structure to that really is helpful. Yeah. Good. I think that, and I do think that. I wanna ask you if you, I, you were talking about exercising, what are you doing for exercise and, how did, how’s that changed since you were shifting and getting into things?

[00:42:24] Joanne: Last summer I had a heel spur and I couldn’t walk much at all. And since I’ve released weight, my heel spur doesn’t hurt at all anymore, so that’s great. I walk a lot. I often will go a half hour away to a park. That was a park I went to as a kid and I’ll do, lately I’ve been trying to do five miles when I go and it’s got a lot of hills and things, so that’s good.

[00:42:44] Joanne: And sometimes I walk with friends too. And I just joined the Y because for my birthday, my 65th birthday, I just had my insurance allowed me a free membership. Oh cool. I would be, so last week I tried six different classes ’cause I wanna try the ones, that I really like. I absolutely loved the water aerobics, so I’m gonna go back to that.

[00:43:06] Joanne: That was a great workout. I’ll go back to that this week. And there was a Zumba class I loved and there was also a line dancing class that I loved because I love those group classes. Yeah, that was a lot of fun. Finding out which ones work. And then [00:43:20] I also had introduction to some of the weight machines.

[00:43:23] Joanne: So I’ll be doing that too because my focus now is I wanna get stronger. I have a lot of loose skin from releasing weight. So I know we have what we call our bat wings anyways, but mine are, I have just a lot of extra loose skin from losing, from Yeah. Losing weight. I wanna just work on my strength now and just getting stronger, especially the upper body.

[00:43:43] Joanne: I’ve never had good upper body strength,

[00:43:45] Rita Black: oh, that’s so great. I love that. Yeah. And we are I, in our membership working on we’re doing a body love challenge and we’re gonna focus on Yes. Our body. And, this year me and that’s gonna be mine, it’s gonna be my arms. I think there’s a lot of ladies in our group, we’re working on our wings.

[00:44:02] Joanne: Yeah. But you know what? They’re the same arms I hug my grandchildren with, and that’s how I think of it. I hug my grandchildren with them. I carry the migrants

[00:44:10] Rita Black: i’m gonna say we’re just gonna fly. We’re ready to fly late the flight. So I’m looking forward to that. We’ll, so my last question, Joanne, and I wanna thank you so much for all you’ve shared, which is so valuable.

[00:44:28] Rita Black: Is if somebody was struggling, for you, because I know you said you had released like six pounds before you even started, because I had started

[00:44:38] Joanne: walking more.

[00:44:38] Rita Black: Yeah. What was that internal decision like? What got you going? What got to take that first? And I’m not talking about shifting step, like even before that internal yeah, okay, I’m worth it, or I wanna do this, or I wanna take care of myself.

[00:44:52] Rita Black: What was that?

[00:44:53] Joanne: I think I just want, aging healthfully. When I just, like I said, when I saw pictures of myself and I [00:45:00] was mortified wow. Getting, when I, a friend of mine, I met her for lunch one day and I hadn’t seen her in a little bit. And she, I could tell, and she works out, she had released weight, and so she was, I was like, okay, that I gotta get inspired here.

[00:45:14] Joanne: So that was, I always tell her you were an inspiration. That and just wanting to be there for my grandchildren, wanting to be healthy because, the more weight and carry we’re, there’s other things that, there’s diabetes, there’s, health related things. Being the youngest, I also see my.

[00:45:31] Joanne: Older siblings and, and so I wanna be able to age well. So I think it was just, it was a combination, but I, and I think when I did get finally brave enough to actually get on the scale, because we talked earlier, sometimes when you’re gaining weight, you don’t wanna get on that scale. Yeah.

[00:45:46] Joanne: But that was, that was scary though, that when I did that and I saw what it was, and but

[00:45:51] Rita Black: was it helpful in the sense of that it was just like, okay, here’s where I am. And I gotta do something. Yeah, that’s, yeah. How much age ranges between you and your eldest sibling?

[00:46:04] Joanne: There my oldest passed, but there were 14 years from youngest to oldest.

[00:46:08] Joanne: So my mom had 14, nine kids in 14 years. Yeah.

[00:46:11] Rita Black: Wow. That poor,

[00:46:13] Joanne: oh my god. I know

[00:46:14] Rita Black: God love her. Yeah. There’s a comedian who said, yeah, like they were from a family your size. And I was like, yeah, the last kid just walked out.

[00:46:25] Rita Black: Yep. I love that. Boy that’s amazing. Thank you so much, Joanne. I really it was such, such a joy to speak with you, and thank you for sharing your

[00:46:37] Joanne: journey. Thank you, because you have been a [00:46:40] lifesaver and it’s been wonderful, and I’m like, you can’t retire ever. I’m not planning on it.

[00:46:46] Joanne: Fortunate. I love what I do I thank you. And it’s a wonderful community to be in a wonderful community to be in. And there’s just, so much support just within the community itself.

[00:46:57] Rita Black: We’re pretty lucky. We have a lot of amazing people. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It’s wonderful. Thank you so much for all of your, all that you shared today. Thank you so much. All right, I’ll see you soon. Thank you so much, Joanne. That was so great. Isn’t she amazing? And don’t you just love that vision that she created with her friend? I really believe in support and sharing your journey is such a powerful way. To move forward and also to have a buddy who’s gonna hold you accountable and, share all of your milestones with you is just a really great thing.

[00:47:33] Rita Black: So join us and get the buddies and the coaching and all the support you need to move forward on this powerful journey. Www.shiftweightmastery.com/fall. We’re still enrolling. There’s still a few places left, but they are going away and we are having an amazing. Amount of people and coaches in this process.

[00:47:55] Rita Black: It’s, I think this is gonna be our best live shift yet. You can join us from your tablet, your desktop, your phone, www do shift weight mastery.com/fall. And have a great week. And remember that the key and probably the only key to unlocking the door of the weight struggle is inside you. So keep listening and find it, and I will see [00:48:20] you here.

[00:48:20] Rita Black: Next week, do you wanna dive deeper into the mindset of long-term weight release? Head on over to www shift weight mastery.com. That’s www shift weight mastery.com, where you’ll find numerous tools and resources to help you unlock your mind for permanent weight release tips, strategies, and more. And be sure to check the show notes to learn more about my book.

[00:48:50] Rita Black: From fat to thin thinking. Unlock your mind for permanent weight loss.

[00:48:59] I.