Rita Black: Mary Macdonald joins me for an amazing discussion about her weight struggle and how it started from a fascination with the world of being thin as a woman, as a rite of passage, which we were all immersed in in the sixties, seventies, and beyond. As a commercial artist, Mary knew the Mad Men World of advertising and how that world drove weight loss deep into the female psyche. You’ll learn about Mary’s journey into weight mastery, releasing 32 pounds, and how she has now been maintaining that for a number of months. Mary has a great perspective on life, and it’s a wonderful way to immerse your mind in the skills that others have developed, not only to release weight, but to keep it off permanently. So come on in and join me, and let’s get going.

Rita Black: Did you know that our struggle with weight doesn’t start with the food on your plate or get fixed in the gym? 80% of our weight struggle is mental. That’s right. The key to unlocking long-term weight release and management begins in your mind. Hi there, I’m Rita Black. I’m a clinical hypnotherapist, weight loss expert, bestselling author, and the creator of the Shift Weight Mastery Process. And not only have I helped thousands of people over the past 20 years achieve long-term weight mastery, I am also a former weight struggler, carb addict and binge eater. And after two decades of failed diets and fad weight loss programs, I lost 40 pounds with the help of hypnosis. Not only did I release all that weight, I have kept it off for 25 years. Enter the Thin Thinking Podcast where you too will learn how to remove the mental roadblocks that keep you struggling. I’ll give you the thin thinking tools, skills, and insights to help you develop the mindset you need, not only to achieve your ideal weight, but to stay there long-term and live your best life. Sound good? Let’s get started.

Rita Black: Hello, how are you? I hope you’re having a great week so far. If you’re listening, when this drops, we’re headed right into a doubleheader Valentine’s Day and the President’s Day weekend. So happy Valentine’s Day. I’m sending you love, and I have my free sugar hypnosis or shift outta sugar cravings hypnosis link for you in the show notes. So go grab it if you haven’t already. Right now, I have no plans for Valentine’s Day with my husband, and those of you who know me, no, I don’t do holidays or major holidays out at restaurants because I used to be a waitress and I swore I would never dine out on holidays especially Valentine’s Day because one, the staff is so typically harried and just, you know, almost burned out, and it just feels like so much pressure to have a good time and to be loving.

Rita Black: I remember one Valentine’s Day when I was a waitress in New York City many, many years ago, back when I was in college at this restaurant called Emilio’s. If you ever were in Emilio’s, in Greenwich Village in the seventies and the eighties, or, well Emilio’s ceased to exist, I think in 1987. But in the sixties and the seventies and the eighties, it was kind of a famous Italian dive. And, for example, the Rolling Stones used to hang out there, and I mean, it was really a dive, but it was very, very popular. And the waitresses there were usually, I was the youngest one there, and the waitresses were so hardened. They were these hardened New York or New York Italian, or immigrant Italian waitresses. And they would, they, you know, took me under their wing and they told me, Hey, you know, the meaner you are to the customers the more they tip you.

Rita Black: This was the eighties. Things have changed for sure. But, that was sort of the law of the land at the time. I mean, we were so bad, we would sit at our waitress table, which was in sort of at the corner of the dining room and smoke and drink wine and ignore our customers. So and we would even smoke at the table taking their order. So Valentine’s there was so crazy. We would make our way through this narrow aisle of tables. And I remember Maria, she was this 76-year-old, the hardest of them all. Tough as nails waitress, skinny, skinny, skinny Italian, and she would write her orders and pencil. You know, this was back before we had any digital sort of ordering system. You know, we would just write the order on a dupe, put it into the kitchen, the cooks would make the food.

Rita Black: And so we would serve our customers with, you know, just written out orders and you know, how much they owed. And she would write it all in pencil and erase half of the order and pocket the difference because it was an all cash place. There was no credit cards accepted at the time. And she did that in front of the owners because she knew she was, she couldn’t be fired because she was connected to the mob. So anyway, on Valentine’s Day, it was so busy, Maria wouldn’t even try to walk the bread basket over to the table. She sat at the table, our table, and she smoked cigarettes, drank red wine, and she would say, here, catch. And she would toss the bread basket over to the customers as they sat down , and then go back to reading her newspaper and wait five minutes before she even sacheted over there to take their order.

Rita Black: So yeah, it was kind of a scene and a real lesson in life for me who was, you know, 21 and just trying to make my rent money. And that mango, the manicotti was the most amazing mango in the world. And yes, I was struggling all the time with the bread and the food. It was so good. So anyway, that scene of Maria throwing bread baskets at the customer sort of is emblazoned on my subconscious mind, and that is why I don’t go out on Valentine’s Day. So hopefully, if you are going out, you have an amazing time. Don’t take my hardened approach, but happy Valentine’s Day to you. But grab my shift out of sugar cravings, hypnosis, because even though I don’t eat out on Valentine’s Day, doesn’t mean that my heart isn’t full of love for my thin thinking community. Go find it in the show notes before I toss it over to you.

Rita Black: Okay. So now I have another mastering maintenance story with Mary Macdonald, who I know you are gonna love, love, love. So let’s hop right into it, shall we?

Rita Black: Well, Mary, I am so excited to welcome you to the Thin Thinking Podcast. So great to have you.

Mary Macdonald: Oh, I’m so happy to be here.

Rita Black: You know, you are, you, you came into our world over almost, I wanna say half a year ago, like it’s been since, like you said, may. And you have just been such a bright light in the community, and you’re always so inquisitive and curious. So I’m excited to talk to you one, but I want to just say how grateful we are for you and having you in the community.

Mary Macdonald: Thank you. Thank you. Right back at you.

Rita Black: So everyone, Mary is here today to share her story and, and to really share what has worked so well for her in releasing a weight. And, and now she’s in maintenance. And I really, she kind of outlined for me what have been her, you know, key key things that have made the most difference to her. And I have to agree with her, like, these are the things that you probably hear me talking about a lot, but that I was like, oh, Mary, I’m so glad. These are the things that made a difference because I absolutely think that they’re as well. So I’m really excited about that. But Mary, maybe just start by telling us your story. I don’t even think I know too much about the origins of your weight struggle, and so please, I’d love to learn.

Mary Macdonald: Great. Well, I think to start with, I was a, a normal sized, healthy, skinny kid. And I lived with a mom who struggled with her weight always and was overweight almost always. And somehow along the way, I got the idea that when grew up, I would diet because that’s what women do.

Rita Black: Interesting.

Mary Macdonald: And my mother would try all these different products, you know, liquid meals and stuff, and I always wanted to try it. And when I reached 13, I went on a diet, even though I wasn’t fat at all, but, you know, that programming was in there. And my first diet was Mecal. Do you remember that one?

Rita Black: I don’t, what was that, A bar or a drink?

Mary Macdonald: It was, yeah, it was a liquid drink nutritionally. I think she got it from her doctor and it tasted horrible.

Rita Black: Oh my gosh. I was just thinking the other day about mothers, ’cause my mother was obese and she would put figurines, do you remember figurines? ’cause I was just thinking of all those diet foods from the seventies. Do you I put, she put figurines in my lunch. And again, I was struggling with my weight, but man, were, was that embarrassing to bring those out of my lunchbox and be like, all the kids are like, what the heck is that? You know, they tasted really good. Unlike this drink. But anyway. That’s so it’s so fascinating that your mom, that you just kind of, through osmosis picked up the weight struggle.

Mary Macdonald: Yes.

Rita Black: With even when you weren’t even struggling with a, I’ve heard, not your story, but I’ve heard smidgens of that from other people who just, it was just through osmosis, through their mother struggling that they started that their psyche kind of picked that up.

Mary Macdonald: Yeah. Yeah. And then, you know, at that point it was kind of a game. But very quickly as I moved through puberty into a culture, this was back in the, the early sixties where, you know, there’s twiggy and there’s –

Rita Black: Yes.

Mary Macdonald: You know, and so, you know, I did Scarsdale, I did Atkins, I did the Thousand Calorie a Day Diet. I did that many times through the years. I did grapefruit, I did the Coca-Cola diet, which was nothing –

Rita Black: What was that?

Mary Macdonald: Nothing but Coca-Cola.

Rita Black: I love it. Coca-Cola must have loved it. They must have started that diet, right?

Mary Macdonald: Yes.

Rita Black: It was so insane back in the sixties and seventies and eighties. I mean, this just, this, I mean, in the nineties too. I mean, my gosh. Well, even now, it’s insane. But I just think of all these products, they, they, they really figured out women in the sixties, I think, you know, did you ever watch the series Mad Men?

Mary Macdonald: Yes.

Rita Black: Oh, yeah. Well, I worked in commercial art for a lot of my career.

Rita Black: Did you?

Mary Macdonald: I know about all that.

Rita Black: Yeah. So they probably in those boardrooms, just like, okay, women are becoming, you know, figure conscious. Let’s dream up all these like, diet things. And then this whole epidemic of struggling with our weight, you know, came out of so many different things. So, interesting. So, can I ask you, ’cause I’m really curious about this mom thing. So you went on that first diet with Metacal, and then did you start, you, but you weren’t seeing, first of all, you weren’t struggling with weight yet. You were just like, it was more like of an inner game of discipline. Like, am I discipline enough to follow this thing? Yeah. Is that correct? Okay.

Mary Macdonald: It was like that. And it was also sort of just this vague notion of this is what women do. I have to learn how to do it.

Rita Black: Yeah. Like a rite of passage. This is what one of the things that you do to become a woman is like, have the discipline around eating and these weird rights of eating.

Mary Macdonald: Exactly.

Rita Black: Okay. Fascinating. Oh gosh.

Mary Macdonald: Yeah. And, and you know, every woman in our culture is indoctrinated with that, no matter what their body looks like. Yeah. At some level, you know, whether they accept it or not, it’s another story. But, you know.

Rita Black: Yeah. I, I, and I think especially in our generation it was I think you’re right. It was like, part of becoming a woman was like that body consciousness, and am I good enough? So our worthiness is also aligned with our ability to be disciplined. And then if we were overweight, then it was like, well, we’re not worthy because we’re not disciplined Do you know what I mean? Like, it, there was a whole woman’s worth. And then that crazy skinny aesthetic, which was just, I mean, you know, for most women, unrealistic.

Mary Macdonald: Yes, absolutely. You know? So yeah, by the time I was 21 when I got married I’d been through a, a dozen or more diets. And at that point I was really struggling with my body. I didn’t like my thighs, I didn’t like my butt. I thought I had to do all kinds of things to change it, you know? Mm-Hmm . And that stayed with me for the rest of my life. Really. I’m 70 now. And I, yo yoed up and down for forever, trying this diet, trying that diet, I could lose it. I could get to my goal, I could keep it off for a little bit, and then it would just gradually I’d go right back to the old way, you know? And I think I’ve heard many women on your podcast talk about that, you know?

Rita Black: Yeah. I mean, I think it becomes a habit, and the going on a diet, finding the diet, going on the diet doing well on the diet. And you get to feel good. You get to feel virtuous while you’re being good on the diet. Because you are being disciplined, and you are showing up and worthy. And then life happens. We go off the diet, and then our whole inner being kind of implodes, and then we kind of fall off and gain the weight back. And, but that becomes this weird cycle. Right. And that’s, I think, that epidemic that everybody gets trapped in.

Mary Macdonald: It’s true.

Rita Black: And it, and it’s a, it’s a habit though. I think we get, I mean, it becomes a very seductive habbit.

Mary Macdonald: Yeah. And, and since I’ve been working with your program with the hypnosis, with the structure, I see how habits make up our whole life. And we can intervene and change them, but it takes consciousness, it takes commitment.

Rita Black: It does it, it does take mindfulness and it does take willingness to really show up for ourselves and to be ready for that transformation.

Mary Macdonald: Yeah.

Rita Black: ‘Cause I think there’s times in life where we aren’t ready. You know, we aren’t ready, we’re going through something, whatever. And so, you know, but as women, we’re always trying to manage our weight, but it, it’s almost like a, a reflex, like, oh, I feel fat gotta lose weight. Versus like, I am really choosing to go on a powerful journey where I’m gonna take care of myself and manage my mind and, and align myself for good. Yeah. So that’s, that’s the distinction. So, so how did you find the shift in, you know, what made you think hypnosis might be helpful for you? Like, at what point were you, like, what, what was going on just before you found the shift? Like, what was going on in your, with your health and your weight?

Mary Macdonald: Yeah. Well, let’s see, in my late forties, I found OA. And I was completely demoralized at that point, and I just gave myself to the 12 step program, and it worked. And I worked with a rather rigid program that had a food plan that was very restrictive.

Rita Black: It was that like the gray sheet or the OA? How?

Mary Macdonald: It was? It was an evolution of the gray sheet.

Rita Black: Oh, okay. Gotcha. Yeah.

Mary Macdonald: But very similar. And and I lost 70 pounds. And kept it off for five years while in the program. And I felt very confident that that was it for me, for the, for my life. I was gonna stay there. Well, when I left the program, very gradually, the old habits started to take over again. And I gained it all back and very demoralized again, embarrassed to go back to the program. So I started trying other things. I went to workshops with Janine Roth, some great ideas about the food numbers, the hunger numbers, but no real structure to help you accomplish it. And she’s very entertaining. But, you know, that doesn’t make anything happen. I went to Chris Carr’s workshops crazy sexy cancer woman. She had some great menus and great recipes and ideas, but again, it didn’t teach me how to make it stick. Tried all kinds of things. Buddhist mindful eating, macrobiotic raw food, I mean, Dr. Andrew Real had a program tried that, you know, they all worked temporarily, right. So by the time I was 60, I just was fed up and I said, no more. I’m not gonna die. I’m just gonna be fat. And and I hated myself. I hated my body. I was embarrassed. It interfered with my life with my husband because I had such low self-esteem, and I couldn’t come forward to him the way I wanted to.

Mary Macdonald: Every time I went out shopping, I’d look at other women who were thinner and I’d be beating on myself the whole time. It was just miserable. And one day I got an email from a woman who works with fashion and fashion styling, and her name is Ginger Burr. And she, she sent me a link to your masterclass. So I thought, well, heck, I’ll listen to it. And, you know, I went and watched you. I love your down to earth natural presentation. And I loved what you were saying. It wasn’t just fluff. And the thing that really caught me was permanent long-term weight release. And then you talked about hypnosis. And I’m going, oh, now that’s different. I’ve never done hypnosis. This is worth a try. So I went and bought a book, Aand I took a 10 day retreat all by myself. And I spent the time reading and taking copious notes, really studying your book. Really felt like this can work. And I made up a chart. ’cause there’s so many things to do as we learn in the shift. I made up a chart of what to do each day. And, and then I made up a chart of my food plans.

Rita Black: Oh, wow. Look at that. That’s beautiful.

Mary Macdonald: Yeah. I’m not very computer techy. So writing it down works for me. And, you know, I’ve got my calories, protein number of veggie servings, carbs, fiber. And recently I’ve added number, a percentage of treats because I’ve added treats with my maintenance. And then down at the bottom, I’ve got my calorie budget, the planned exercise, my daily body burn, and the formula plus my exercise calories, minus my food calories. And it’s for every week I have these sheets topped off with the sheet from the, the calculator.

Rita Black: Oh, fantastic.

Mary Macdonald: And so this is, this is my inner scientist at work tracking. So I’ve got a file folder with all my weeks in here. I’m on week 28. And it’s so helpful ’cause I can go back and instantly I know what I’ve done, what worked, what didn’t. And if I learn more, I can, I can look for other things I didn’t notice before.

Rita Black: Yeah. Yeah, you obviously like learning and I think you’re way technical. If you can make a chart like that, that’s pretty good. Better than me. So you mentioned your inner scientists. So for our, you know, listeners who have not gone through the program or anything, you know, we do talk about inner coach, inner scientists. ’cause as you can see, Mary is using data in a way to keep her mind in a rational place rather than in irrational emotional places, which is where we go and get hooked. So we use this concept of our inner coach and our scientists to kind of pull us to the right part of the brain that’s going to get us going. So how did you develop that? Like, for, it sounds like you started to just collect data, but you know, the idea, the inner coach, like, was that new to you? Or do you feel like you had an inner coach before? I mean, obviously had an inner coach, but you didn’t, how was your relationship with your inner coach?

Mary Macdonald: Well, I’ve done a fair amount of meditation in my life. And though I didn’t use the term inner coach, I was in touch with my higher self.

Rita Black: Okay.

Mary Macdonald: But I didn’t use her the way I use her now. You know? Now she’s a daily part of, it’s not just for meditation. It’s about checking in for my weight, for my, my structure, for my weight, for my art practice. That’s very important to me. For relationships, for everything. And she’s got some good stuff to tell me, you know, whether I like hearing it or not, it helps.

Rita Black: Yeah. It’s like you have this part of you, I, I, you know, people come into the program and all the time they’re like, this is way more than about weight. This is, and it is, is that conscious self, like you said, the higher self can come in and really intercept in those places where we’re stuck. Yeah. And, you know, we think we need something outside of us when a lot of the time we’ve got some pretty good answers if we just listen to ourselves in the right way. Right.

Mary Macdonald: Absolutely. And, and all the material that you offer, you are so generous in what you give us.

Rita Black: Oh, thank you.

Mary Macdonald: Helps my inner coach to evolve.

Rita Black: Yeah. Yeah. So you then, did you do the spring shift? Or how did you come into the actual program? Program? I, I know you did the book, but –

Mary Macdonald: Yeah. At some point, you know, I was getting your emails all along. And at some point over the summer, I got one that offered the monthly Mastery. ’cause I had completed the program that’s on the CD that comes with the book. And I think that’s how it happened. So I joined Monthly Mastery, and then this fall was the first shift I did

Rita Black: Oh, okay. I didn’t know that. That’s great.

Mary Macdonald: And I loved doing the Shift program, you know, along with everybody else. And then it was really wonderful to do a little coaching on Facebook as well.

Rita Black: Yeah. You were an awesome coach. When you did hypnosis, what was that? Because people, again, a lot of our audience members may have not experienced hypnosis. What was, what did, what do you like about hypnosis? Like, what was helpful for you within?

Mary Macdonald: When I, when I did my retreat back in the spring I started the hypnosis that was on the CD right away. And I immediately noticed a complete change in the old pattern of craving food, thinking about food, eating food, eating more food, wanting more food. It, it changed almost overnight, Rita.

Rita Black: Oh, wow.

Mary Macdonald: And I know it was, I know it was the hypnosis.

Rita Black: Yeah.

Mary Macdonald: It was, it was extraordinary. I know. It reached deep into my subconscious and got that aligned with my conscious.

Rita Black: Yeah. Very cool. I know you mentioned something to me when we were talking earlier too about the vision and your vision and, you know, I asked Mary before I turned on record, I said, Mary, what are what are the things that are, are the biggest things that I, that you think, and you said you’re inner coach and you’re inner scientist, but then you said something that was very cool, which was

Mary Macdonald: Having a vision that excites me.

Rita Black: And, and I wanna underline that excites me because I think a lot of times we come up with visions that scare us. Or visions that overwhelm us, visions that bore us. But I think it’s a very key factor to have a vision that excites you. So how did you, how do you know that your vision excites you? Like what, I mean, what, what did you define that for everybody?

Mary Macdonald: Well, I think the first time I really felt that had to do with one of the coaching sessions you did, that comes with the weekly planning and you, you guided us through creating a vision. And I landed on a vision of me at my goal weight in a beautiful new silk blouse that I had been drooling over for years and never got, ’cause I was fat. And being out with my husband on a date, you know, and it just, oh, that just inside it was like champagne bubbling up. That’s excitement for me.

Rita Black: That’s amazing. But it, I love how pieces of clothing can really be anchors for people. Either a piece of clothing you used to wear that you wanna wear again, or something that you’ve seen that you’re like, that’s an out of reach thing that I want it to be within reach. So, and I love how you anchored it also with your husband and you know, ’cause I know you said it made it, like when you were overweight, it made you feel a little disconnected from that relationship. So you kind of also aligned it with intimacy and connection with him.

Mary Macdonald: Yes. Yes. And here’s, here’s what’s really cool. On Halloween, two weeks after I reached goal weight, a vision came true exactly as I had imagined.

Rita Black: Oh my gosh. That is amazing. How cool is that?

Mary Macdonald: It was so fun.

Rita Black: So you got the blouse.

Mary Macdonald: Yeah.

Rita Black: Obviously. And, and, and it was like, oh, I looked like I did in my vision of my blouse, and you and your husband went out. Oh, I love that. So, so great. Yes. Isn’t that cool? Well, good for you. So now, what’s your new vision that excites you? Do you have, do you have a maintenance vision?

Mary Macdonald: I have a maintenance vision. And this one is for this month.

Rita Black: Okay.

Mary Macdonald: Especially, especially with Thanksgiving.

Rita Black: Yeah.

Mary Macdonald: So my vision is that I’m at Thanksgiving at our son’s house with his family, and I’m having a wonderful time enjoying their company, the food, eating in a way that feels light and nourishing and tasty. And I’m wearing my fuzzy cashmere sweater, and we go out and have a walk afterwards and go out and see the horses. They live in the country.

Rita Black: Oh, nice.

Mary Macdonald: And it’s not quite as exciting to me in terms of champagne bubbles, like the goal weight was. But, but it feels sustainable and like a great first step of what maintenance is about.

Rita Black: I love that our, I think it’s important for those of you guys who maybe haven’t gotten to your goal weight are maintaining what Mary’s talking about is like this idea of perpetual visions that are perpetually engaging you. So I think with maintenance it becomes like, people do have a harder time because it’s like, well, what do I want? Like, you know, if it’s not looking great, my silk shirt, but the longer that we are in maintenance, the more mastery we have. And the more so you can imagine like, once Thanksgiving comes and goes, you know, seeing yourself in the spring still maintaining your weight and feeling even more masterful. ’cause You got through Christmas, excuse me, I’m gonna cough again. I’m sorry. Yeah. I’m just overcoming a cold. But so I love that you have Thanksgiving all factored in. That’s great.

Mary Macdonald: Yeah. It feels good. Another big part of that for me is that it’s easy.

Rita Black: Oh, yes.

Mary Macdonald: I’m, I’m not sitting there struggling with the food.

Rita Black: Yes. That’s, that’s very important. I think it’s like, for me, because I still do vision work for maintenance, and it’s not work, but like, I still use a vision for maintenance, which is what you are saying. For me, it’s freedom. It’s just freedom from the struggle is, you know, way I think it becomes richer the longer that you’re in maintenance because you become less and less attached to food the longer you’re in maintenance. And maybe you felt that, like in those five years when you were in oh, A two, I don’t know. But just not like, yeah, like that the holidays aren’t about food. They’re about like, being with people. And that’s such a gift because I never thought that that would be a thing for me. I mean, I always thought I’d be struggling or depriving or whatever. Those, you know gears of struggling with weight are.

Rita Black: So it’s such, so I’m glad you’re free from that and that your visions are about enjoyment and feeling good and connected with your family. That’s really cool. Yeah. I’m, I’m happy for you. You did talk about plan the third leg of your you know, things that were, you know, high on your list of like what’s changed or how’s you do plan your food, and I know you talked about that a little bit what is, maybe talk about that just a little more just from a, ’cause I think when people think about planning food, they think like they’re, they all kind of go Ugg like, oh, planning food, or I don’t know how to cook. Or, you know, like, a lot of limiting beliefs come up when we hear about planning. So maybe talk from that point of like, what, what distinguishes planning for you and how has it actually freed you up rather than made you feel like, you know? ’cause I think we think of planning, we think of oppression. Like, oh, I have to do this thing, and I’m, you know, having to be diligent and, you know, retentive and, you know, it feels, you know, it can feel from the outside looking in, it can feel like a lot.

Mary Macdonald: Right. I think, you know, when I found you and I found the book, I knew that I was at a point in my life where either I give myself to, to being healthy and doing what it takes or not. And at age 70 things look very different than they did before. You know, it’s like, Hey, I could have all kinds of complications if I don’t take care of myself. So that was a big motivator to begin with. And then as time went on and I started learning more and more, and I listened to what you had to say about planning, I realized I can decide what kind of days food do I want that I can look forward to, and how can I put the, the jigsaw pieces together so that it works in my calorie budget. And I don’t have to think about my calorie budget.

Mary Macdonald: ‘Cause It’s all figured out. And I get to look forward to, I’m gonna have this for lunch, I’m gonna have that for my snack. I’m gonna have this for dinner. You know, and, and I always put a treat at the end. Ever since day one, I’ve had two 25 calorie dark chocolate pieces every night. That’s my dessert. What’s that? And so I always have that to look forward to. And somehow, I think because of the hypnosis, all of me got on board with that. It’s like, okay, what are we gonna have tomorrow? What’s gonna be good? You know?

Rita Black: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and I think the distinguishing factor with planning is it’s like you either live your life or your life lives you. And that when it, you start with food and you start with like what you’re saying, Mary, which is, I have a choice and I can choose how to feed myself today. And it’s not about deprivation. It’s about, Ooh, what do I want? What do I wanna create? And, you know, we’re either, you know, creating our life or, or like I said, we’re waking up and kind of defensively living our life. And I think when we struggle with our weight, it’s like, we’re trying to be good, but this, it’s this very, from this very sort of defensive I hope I’m good. Oh, no, I wasn’t good. Versus like, I wanna have an amazing week. I want to maintain my weight.

Rita Black: How am I gonna do that? And coming from using your logical brain, your rational mind, your desires, oh, I wanna make sure I have my dark chocolate. Ooh, I wanna make sure I have, you know, spaghetti and meatballs or whatever it is that you, you get to choose. And then, and then that bleeds out into the rest of your life. Like, ooh, what do I wanna do this week that’s going to be engaging and exciting and work on my art? Or, I think it just, you, you planning helps you engage your brain in a series of questions that you ask yourself. You know, like the, I one of my mentors once said, and I think it’s so true, the quality of your life is the quality of questions you ask yourself. And Yeah. You know what I mean? And planning to me is questioning like, well, what do I want?

Rita Black: What do I wanna create? Rather than this idea of this rigid having to be a particular way, it’s like, ooh. But here I am at this point in my life, like, you’re at 70, I’m at 60, and I’m like, I am 60 and it is November. And, and we not, we might want be airing this in November, but, but you know, what is this week gonna be about for me? And, and your brain comes up with some amazing stuff when you start asking it those kinds of questions. So you start living a life from a place of, oh, I get to choose another mentor. I’ve had many said, you know, most people don’t even ask themselves questions about what they want. They’re just living their life defensively. If you ask ’em what they want, they’re like, I don’t know. I just know what I don’t want.

Mary Macdonald: Yes. Yes. And that’s how I lived much of my life. And you’re so right about how asking the right questions brings more of what you want. You know, like in retirement, after a 35 year art career, I finally am pursuing the thing I’ve always wanted, which was classical art, like Michelangelo and Leonardo Davinci.

Rita Black: Oh, wow.

Mary Macdonald: Wonderful master teachers. And I just couldn’t get myself to practice. Procrastination, old habit, fear, old habit. What if I can’t do it old habit. And with the very same principles that I’ve learned from you for for weight management, I’m applying to the art and it’s soaring. I’ve progressed so much.

Rita Black: That is exciting!

Mary Macdonald: Just like I have with my weight.

Rita Black: Yeah. That’s fantastic. I love that. So you’re, you’re, you’ve opened up a whole new channel of how you approach art.

Mary Macdonald: Yes. And it’s also affecting relationships in beautiful ways.

Rita Black: Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I, I wholly agree with you that it opens up new layers of connecting. Because, because you’re not a, because you are open to yourself and connecting with yourself first, it allows you to connect with others on a deeper level. Yeah. Yes. Well, Mary, that is, that is really Oh, oh, that’s okay. Tell me you know, with regards to your continuing journey, well, I can see that’s totally fine. Don’t worry about that. I see a beautiful bird behind you. Mary’s for those of you who can’t see Mary she’s got a window behind her in this bird. Where do you live, Mary? You live in Oregon, right? I live

Mary Macdonald: In Oregon. Eugene, Oregon.

Rita Black: That’s right. Yeah.

Mary Macdonald: Eugene, Oregon.

Rita Black: Yeah. It’s such a beautiful place. My brother-in-law lives there, and the wildlife there is so pretty. So I think that might be a robin behind you, but it might be a hummingbird. I don’t know. What, it’s

Mary Macdonald: Probably FI’s.

Rita Black: Oh, okay. Yeah. You’re probably right.

Mary Macdonald: Yeah.

Rita Black: What, for you, you know, given now all of your wisdom from, from what you’ve gone through and where you’re at now, what would you say if somebody was struggling with themselves, what the first step would be that you would have them? Like, what advice would you give to somebody? You know, their first simple step would be?

Mary Macdonald: I think what could really make a difference for anybody is to let themselves daydream about what they would really like for their body and their health and their weight.

Mary Macdonald: Even if they don’t believe they can have it, you know? Yeah. And, and it can be hard to do that if you don’t believe you can have it. But just, and that could help to spark just a little spark a little flame that says, I’m gonna see what I can do about that. Because that’s what happened to me when I found your book. ’cause I had given up. And watching your masterclass ignited a little bitty flame that, let me imagine. Well, what would it be like to have permanent weight loss?

Rita Black: Yeah. I love that. That it goes back to that asking the question. And again, sometimes I think we’re afraid to ask that question, afraid to Yeah. Open up that channel. So I love that as just like the first little step is the idea of daydreaming. That’s a really great way of framing it is you don’t have to do it. Just kind of think about it. Just think about what it would be like And it, it’s interesting ’cause one of the first things I think when I kind of embarked upon my journey was that it’s like, what is the kinda life I really wanna live on a day-to-day basis? Like, how do I really wanna wake up in the morning feeling? ’cause I’d spent so many years just waking up, hating myself for what I did the night before. I couldn’t even imagine what that would look like. But you just start asking yourself like, oh, there’s another way. Maybe I could wake up and feel good about myself. Like what? ’cause That gets the brain problem solving really. It does.

Mary Macdonald: Yeah. It does. And it also lightens the load because giving up feels like shit.

Rita Black: Yeah.

Mary Macdonald: Sorry, sorry, from my French, but

Rita Black: No, that’s, that’s what it feels like.

Mary Macdonald: Yeah. And if, if a little tiny flame of hope comes in because you’ve daydreamed about it, it feels better right away. Even if it’s just a little bit.

Rita Black: Yeah. I love that, Mary. Thank you. Well, this has been such a great conversation, Mary. I cannot thank you enough. It’s been a, it’s brought a lot of value to a lot of people. And I love the three, I’m gonna repeat your three. So cultivate your inner coach and inner scientists. They’re kind of, I, I see them as separate, but the same. Like, they’re kind of like buddies. They’re like Siamese twins, conjoin twins, I guess is the term now. A vision that excites you and planning food, but like really planning, questioning, and having those like little huddles with yourself where you’re just giving yourself that opportunity to have what you want.

Mary Macdonald: Right. And, you know, one, one more thing about the planning. Rita, I loved when you showed us your planner, and I went out, oh, look at that. I found a planner. I used to have a little bitty one. And this planner lets me plan everything in my life once a week. And it, it includes my exercise and my art practice and shopping for food. And what I learned from it that’s so huge, is when my life gets too full, I mess up, everywhere I mess up and I feel awful inside. I feel harassed and stressed, and, and life isn’t fun. So the planner helps me to organize things so that I don’t do that to myself.

Rita Black: Oh, I love that.

Mary Macdonald: Yeah.

Rita Black: I love that. You know, I again, another sort of like teacher that I follow has, you know, and he’s an more of an organizational teacher, and he talks about maker days or maker time versus manager time. You know, like your art is sort of maker time. You set chunks of time aside for like your passion or what you do, and then there’s the manager time. And I think being organized and planning also allows you to create the space for the maker time that usually we’ll just fill that time up with nonsense, you know, social media. And, and the habits that we fall into, rather than saying, I’m setting aside three hours to do that thing that I really like to do, or moving my body and exercise or whatever. So, yeah, again, it allows you to create life rather than have it kind of just be filled in with things that are not filling you up. Really. Yeah.

Mary Macdonald: Yes. That’s so true.

Rita Black: Yeah. So I love that. I, I, I know, I, I could, I, what would I do without my at a glance calendar? I mean, you know, I’m, so, everybody’s like, where’s your Google Calendar? I’m like, I’m sorry, I don’t do that. I’m, I’m old school. I’m a dinosaur, but whatever. It works for me. So I think they’ll be coming, they’ll be making a big comeback. I don’t think they’re going out of business anytime soon. Yeah. Well, Mary, this has been lovely. Thank you so much for coming on. And we’ll have to come have you come back on and tell us more about your artwork. I’d love to hear more. Well, thank you again for your time and for your insights. It’s been really wonderful.

Mary Macdonald: I’ve loved it. Really. Thank you. And I hope it helps a lot of people.

Rita Black: Oh, yes, it, I’m sure it will.

Rita Black: Mary, thank you. That was amazing. I, I love your insights. I love your approach to weight mastery. Thank you for being here with me today and sharing your experience with our Thin Thinking community and my lovely, beautiful, thin thinking community. I hope you enjoyed that and got all of Mary’s goodness and wisdom. So back to sending you this love my Valentine’s Day’s lovelies. And even if this isn’t Valentine’s Day, if you go to the show notes of this podcast, you will find my shift out of Sugar cravings hypnosis session, which is good to listen to and great to listen to, not just during Valentine’s Day, but all year long. So have a great week, and remember that the key, and probably the only key to unlocking the door of the weight struggle is inside you. So keep listening and find it. I will be here with you next week.

Rita Black: Thanks for listening to The Thin Thinking Podcast. Did that episode go by way too fast for you? If so, and you wanna dive deeper into the mindset of long-term weight release, head on over to www.shiftweightmastery.com. That’s www.shiftweightmastery.com, where you’ll find numerous tools and resources to help you unlock your mind for permanent weight release tips, strategies, and more. And be sure to check the show notes to learn more about my book from Fat to Thin Thinking, Unlock Your Mind for Permanent Weight Loss, and to learn how to subscribe to the podcast so that you never miss an episode.