Rita Black: Managing the holiday eating. I know it’s one thing to hear me give you wisdom on how to manage your holidays and still stay on top of your weight goals. And another all together to hear it from two people who just began their weight journey before the holiday season last year. In this episode, you will hear from Michele and Marilyn, who have undergone major weight release transformations this last year and will be sharing their wisdom on how they manage the holidays last year and still released weight and how they plan to manage their holidays and their big families and lots and lots of food this year as well. You will also be hearing from our wise and wonderful coach Karen, about how she manages to make her Hanukkah happy and healthy. So put down that Hawley and the Ivy and come on in.

Rita Black: Did you know that our struggle with weight doesn’t start with the food on your plate or get fixed in the gym? 80% of our weight struggle is mental. That’s right. The key to unlocking long-term weight release and management begins in your mind. Hi there, I’m Rita Black. I’m a clinical hypnotherapist weight loss expert, bestselling author, and the creator of the Shift Weight Mastery Process. And not only have I helped thousands of people over the past 20 years achieve long-term weight mastery. I am also a former weight struggler, carb addict and binge eater. And after two decades of failed diets and fad weight loss programs, I lost 40 pounds with the help of hypnosis. Not only did I release all that weight, I have kept it off for 25 years. Enter the Thin Thinking Podcast where you too will learn how to remove the mental roadblocks that keep you struggling. I’ll give you the thin thinking tools, skills and insights to help you develop the mindset you need, not only to achieve your ideal weight, but to stay there and live your best life.

Rita Black: Hello and happy, happy holiday season to you wherever you are and whatever you’re up to in your life. I hope you are enjoying yourself. I hope you’re enjoying the magic of the holidays. I hope you’re enjoying the people around you. Here we are in mid-December, and this is usually when the holiday food fog begins, right?That fog of holiday food just floats on in from the coast, or from the strange waters of the winter solstice and the year’s end. I was not at one, but two holiday events this last weekend. And now that I am an empty nester, I’m hitting more friend and family party since both my kids are gone until almost Christmas day. So that’s how we’re getting the holidays in. But this year when my kids are home, we are staying in home, no travel, but we are planning to explore the city of LA. It’s, you know, since the pandemic we haven’t really been out and about in our own city. And there’s lots of fun stuff to do here, like museums and hikes out to the coast, which we rarely do. So we’re gonna do some stuff, cultural stuff and activity stuff.

Rita Black: How about you? Are you traveling? Are you with family? Is your family far away and you’re taking care of yourself or having friends over? What are you up to this holiday season? I hope that whatever you’re up to, you are feeling good about it. I think the most important thing is our staying connected to ourselves, because when we’re connected to ourselves in a powerful way, we are never alone and we can be our own best company even during these busy times or not so busy times for some of us. So my well wishes go out to everybody in the community and our wonderful global community here with the Thin Thinking. And my podcast today is brought to you by my very handy Sugar Cravings Hypnosis session, which if you have not ever downloaded, go and grab it now. And if you have in years past, but you’re like, where is that hypnosis session on sugar?

Rita Black: You can go and sign up in the show notes and grab it again. And now without further ado, I am gonna introduce you to Marilyn and Michelle, who will tell you their shift stories quickly. I think you’ve heard from both of them before. I’ve had them both on just to speak about their weight releases, but now I’m putting them in the what do you call that? The catbird seat. They’re gonna be talking about their plans for this holiday, as well as walking you through what they did last holiday to stay healthy, healthy hacks. And even if you aren’t visiting this family this year, they’re talking about their families a lot. But they also have some very good tidbits, even if you are on your own or you’re just, you know, you and your partner or a few friends are getting together.

Rita Black: And right on the heels of their interview, I joined with Coach Karen for some Hanukkah coaching just to cover our bases here. So let’s get started.

Rita Black: Hello everyone and welcome. We, I have the amazing Marilyn and Michele, two powers with me today. Marilyn and Michele both have been in the world of shifting for over a year now. And so I’m just gonna introduce them both and have them tell you a little bit about them and their weight, not their weight history, but just a little bit about themselves and their journey. And then I am really happy to have them here. Marilyn and Michele both have been shift coaches and I consider them well on their journey of weight mastery. And so I thought instead of me just telling you ideas for the holidays and how to prepare, I thought, well, why not ask two other powerful people who are on their journeys for their ideas as well? ’cause three heads are definitely better than one.

Rita Black: So Marilyn, would you please just come on and just tell us a little quickly about you and your journey of weight mastery?

Marilyn: Hi everybody, I’m Marilyn. I’m coming to you from near Toronto, Canada today, and oh my goodness. So I’m gonna say, you know, I did struggle with my weight from the time I was a teenager, and when I was 54, 53, somewhere around there, I had gastric bypass surgery. That was about 10 years ago. And I had a great result from that. But during the pandemic, pounds started to creep back on, and at that time, I knew I didn’t want, I knew a diet wasn’t the answer, and I really wanted to get some habits and a lifestyle really solidified for me. And I did that a lot through shift. Shift was a big piece of that. And so I have released about 50 pounds at this point, and this is now I consider myself maintaining. So I’ve been maintaining now for about, about roughly 3, 4 months. And you know, it has, I have my days. Some days it’s easy, some days it’s hard to maintain. So I’m still really getting my footing with that. And I was pleased when Rita asked me to talk about the holidays because I said, I don’t think that is one of my strong points, but actually talking about it causes me really to reflect and be very intentional about what I’m going to be putting in place. So that’s me in a nutshell at this moment in time.

Rita Black: And Marilyn, you are always so organized. So I appreciate your being here. And I know it isn’t it, that the truth, when you talk about it, it just, it brings it all front of mind and then you can own it.

Marilyn: Absolutely.

Rita Black: Ms. Michele, how about you? Tell us a little bit about your lovely self.

Michele: Hi I’m Michelle. I live in New York City. I’m a 68-year-old retired banker with five grown children and five grandchildren. I’m Italian American and I come from a culture of a lot of food, a lot of celebrations, you know, tied up food is love kind of thing. And you know, the holidays have always been, you know, a tough time of year for me as regarding my weight. I joined shift last October, and I was very hesitant to join in October because all I could think of is, oh, shouldn’t I wait until January? Because isn’t that when everybody starts to diet in January? But I knew that the next shift wasn’t until the spring. So if I joined in January, I would’ve kind of had to do it on my own for a little while and then catch up with the shift in April. And I didn’t wanna do that. And, you know, my goal in joining in October was more just not to gain any weight over the holiday, you know, considering I was, you know, around a hundred pounds overweight when I started, but I actually did lose, I think about 15 pounds in the period between Thanksgiving and New Year’s while enjoying myself, you know, in limited ways. I love to cook and bake with my daughters, with my grandchildren, and I did it. I just didn’t, you know, indulge as much. And as of today, I am just a hair away from having lost 60 pounds.

Rita Black: That’s amazing, Michele. And that’s amazing too, Marilyn. Both of you have really had amazing years as far as shifting. And when they say shifting, they’re really just meaning, they’re engaged in their weight mastery journey and really working the skillset of weight mastery, which isn’t about being good on a diet, but it’s just about engaging this very powerful set of skills that are really associated with people who have taken weight off and kept it off long term.

Rita Black: So having said that, Marilyn, what’s your overall, like as you go since you, you know, started, both of you started last year in the autumn, and so you have already gone through a holiday season, and I know you’ve had a whole year of experience and you are sort of newbies heading into the holidays last year. Now, you know, a year into it, like what’s your overview of heading into the holidays? What are your overall plans to stay healthy and on track? Marilyn, I know you’re maintaining, and Michele, I know you’re continuing your weight release, so I’d love to hear both perspectives. Marilyn, how about you?

Marilyn: Okay, so I think the most important thing for me is really reflecting and reminding myself each day why it is that it’s important that I stay true to my intentions each day. Because I think we all, we often all start the day intending to eat healthy, intending to make wise choices, intending to get that activity in. And sometimes we don’t follow through on our intent. And it’s not that great feeling, but it’s a really great feeling when you do fulfill your intentions and when you do stay true to what you want to do, because there’s a reason that you want to do those things. So I think it’s, for me, it’s really gonna be really important to connect to that reason, to remind myself of that reason every single day of the holidays. I know it’s always challenging for me when I go home because I’m out of my environment and I don’t know what it is.

Marilyn: When I walk into my mom’s house, the first thing I wanna do is like, open the fridge. And it’s just that reaction. And I have really, I’ve sort of trained myself out of that a little bit, but, you know, over Christmas I’ll be there for a longer time and just staying there longer. So I think it’s really connecting to those thoughts. First of all, I know we’re gonna get into specific strategies later, but I think reflecting and really connecting to those thoughts and connecting to the reason why, what is the whole reason that I want to be fit and live a healthy lifestyle.

Rita Black: Awesome, thank you. I think you bring up a really important point is that we spend so much time during the holiday season, externally focused right on our family, friends, getting things done, checking the lists of all the things we need to do. And it is coming back to ourself, really being in our body, really being with our intention, our mindfulness that gives us that edge over that, you know, what we talk about in the shift, a lot self communication. Like, oh, okay, what do I really want? And where, how do I really wanna finish this day? Because the days in the holidays just bleed one into the other and it can just be this big sort of whirlwind of almost like a trance state. We all end up in, where we end up January 1st feeling, you know, 10 pounds heavier or bloated and horrible, like you said, we do not feel good. And just setting that intention of how you wanna feel at the end of the day and each day, it’s, that is super powerful.

Rita Black: Michelle, how about you? Like, overall, what are your intentions heading into the holidays? ’cause I know you’re in weight release mode.

Michele: My intention is to keep the treating myself with food to a minimum. There’s a lot of that don’t involve food. And I mean, the holidays themselves, Christmas day, Christmas Eve, new Year’s Day, Thanksgiving day, you know, four or five days of revelry isn’t going to ruin two months of, you know, being more mindful. So I will contain the celebration to those days and just be my regular cautious self. The other one, the other days that’s pretty much how I got through the holidays last year and lost weight. I’m looking at my calendar and I think in the next four weeks I’m going to be eating out meaning in a restaurant or somewhere other than my own home, close to one half of the time. You know? We have a half the ballet, we have a Broadway show, we have a Christmas show, and those are all going to involve a meal in a restaurant either before or after the event parties, my granddaughter’s birthday party. It’s just one thing after the other. All happy things. And I’m not going to allow myself to not enjoy them because I’m so concerned about what I’m going to eat. I’m going to eat right and enjoy the event. Those two things are going to go hand in hand.

Rita Black: Right. Well, very good. I love that approach too. It’s, you are absolutely right. There’s really only a few days that are the actual holidays, but, and you have created a pattern of eating you know, on your journey that serves you, that’s allowed you to release weight. And I hear what you’re saying is like, you can stay in that pattern but then just adapt for those few days that are the more celebratory days. And that you can still live your life. I think that’s the part of long-term permanent weight management. A lot of people think about dieting and they think about restricting and deprivation, but you can hear with Michelle and Marilyn that they aren’t depriving themselves. They’re just figuring out how to have an amazing holiday and still stay in line with themselves, their intentions and their goals. And I know, Michele, you’ve done a lot of work on being able to eat out and being able to be social while you’re still releasing weight.

Rita Black: So I’m gonna circle back to both of you now. I’m just, I’m pulling up a little cheat sheet for our friends, but I, now, I wanted to, so we talk about in the shift the nine skills of weight mastery. And I’m not gonna get into each of the skills, but there are like three subgroups, mindset skills, weight management skills, and then environmental skills. So I’m gonna ask my shifters you know, I’m just gonna kind of touch upon some points. Like our inner coach, you know, when we struggle with our way, we kind of go between that inner critic and inner rebel. The inner critic beats us up because we’re, you know, never perfect on our diet. And then the rebel’s like, well, since you screwed up, you might as well. And the rebel is very loud during the holiday season. So, Marilyn, I already heard you talking about basically your inner coach, which is like getting, being with that powerful part of you, that curious part of you, that problem solver you and reflecting each day. When you reflect what you’re reflecting on how you wanna finish that day, are there any things that you, things that you focus on, like your, like a vision of where you wanna be January 1st, or

Marilyn: So one of the reasons that was really important to me to start the whole weight release journey was the amount of head space it was occupying for me and really kind of like a negative veil for me. And it was preventing me from, I really feel engaging to the fullest in lives of people that I care about. So what I really want to do, so when I focus, when I reflect, I think about how do I want to engage today to make my life fun and engage and grow the relationships in my life. So those are are kind of important questions. They’re not really weight related, but they really focus somewhere else than that. But that’s all, to me, that’s all really part of having a quality life. So I think about how I want to engage with people and what do I want?

Marilyn: So if I’m, if it’s a visit or a dinner out, I’m thinking, what do I want to gain from that? And it’s not, it’s not weight I wanna gain. I wanna gain other, other things, right? And so I think about how I can concentrate on those things and make those things the focus rather than the focus of the weight. Does that, does that kind of make sense? And meanwhile, and I’ve just, I wanna give Michele a shout out too, because like, she’s the queen of eating out. She does that so well. She’s often, often comments on that in the Facebook group. And she’s just, she’s really good. She’s got very great strategies for that. So shout out there.

Rita Black: Yeah. well, Marilyn, just while I have you on mindset when things go awry, like you know, for instance, often we are going to not be perfect during the holidays. Let’s just put it that way. I mean, you, you know, and our philosophy isn’t, you know, starting over tomorrow. It’s really about staying connected to yourselfand forgiving yourself, having compassion, learning the lesson and then moving on. ’cause there’s so many lessons to be learned during the holiday season if you allow them to be lessons instead of like, well, I screwed that up and I’ll just start again on January 1st. Tell us about, like how do you employ forgiveness? Or you, you know, do you, are you employing forgiveness in the learning, the lessons, you know, as you head into the holiday season?

Marilyn: Yeah. So I try to get back on track right away if I’ve gone off. I will say that for me in particular, I don’t have a really, a really strong inner critic. I have a pretty strong rebel, but the critic is not too strong. So it’s, it’s very, I don’t think much about the forgiveness thing, the guilt trip that doesn’t weigh, that doesn’t weigh me down too much. But sometimes, I mean, as soon as I, as soon as, there comes a thought to my mind, you know what? I’ve made a bad decision. And you know, if I’m halfway through a bag of chips or something like that, or whatever it is, if it occurs to me, I have a five second rule that I employ, and if something, an action that I should be doing occurs to me, then I kind of, I act on it within five seconds before I talk myself out of it. And sometimes that is taking the rest of that bag of chips and dumping it in the garbage, you know, I will, I will do that. I think, oh, that is, that’s a really good, like, I’m not even enjoying these anymore garbage, and I’ll do it before I think, well, you know, I could just save ’em for later or something like that.

Rita Black: Awesome. Well done. Yeah. Michele, how about you and your inner coach? I mean I know you came into this, the shift, you know, very clear on your inner critic and your inner rebel, like as you head into the holiday season. Do, are you, what are you doing in the morning? Are you, to prepare yourself for the day? Like the mindset piece of that? Like how do you communicate with your inner coach to you, you know, on a daily basis, but especially, you know, how are you planning to use your inner coach during the holidays?

Michele: Well, I generally listen to the meditations in the morning either in bed or when I’m on the exercise bike. It makes the time go more quickly. You know? I do an hour every morning. I’ve worked up to that. That’s, and it just goes quickly when you’re doing something else, watching the news, looking at your phone, reading. I like it because I can multitask. You know? If you’re on you know, going for a walk, it’s hard to multitask, but you can multitask on the bike. So I try to plan out my day, sort of working backwards from as far as food goes, what I’m going to be making for dinner. And then I basically earlier choices during the day, you know, on that, leaving enough wiggle room my inner rebel can get a little bit wordy at times especially on those occasions when you’re eating out. Yeah. And it’s like, wow, look at all these people around you. Look at what they’re eating. That woman over there is having two muffins, and I’m just having, you know, dry toast and an egg. Why don’t I just order a muffin? It’s only one. It is very hard to get out of that mindset, but you really have to you know, I don’t wanna blow 400 calories on a muffin.

Rita Black: Yeah. It’s, I know. And well, and you, when you live in a particular way, like you are, I mean, again, you are, the value you’re getting is leaving that restaurant feeling good and light and not, like you just (inaudible) in a carb coma from eating the muffin. Do you employ, like, how do you employ, like if you get off track, like, let’s say if you do get off track at a restaurant or, you know, at a family event, or just, you know, on a daily basis, Michele, you know, foreseeing, like you went through the holidays last year, how did you negotiate that and forgive yourself and just move on and learn the lesson? You know, versus beating yourself up about things?

Michele: I try at least, you know, once every hour to just stop and just think about what I’ve done in the past hour and what I want to do in the next hour. Break it up into segments, sort of. So, you know, it doesn’t even have to be food. You know I’ve been talking to this person for the past hour. I’m gonna go talk to another person now. But it can be food sometimes, you know, okay, I’ve eaten half of what, you know, this meal was half of this entree. Do I really want to eat the other half? Am I still hungry? I can tell you most times now, when I’m in a restaurant, no matter what I order, whether it’s something decadent or whether it’s, you know, just a piece of broiled fish halfway through, I stop and I just think about whether I wanna continue to eat it. Last weekend I was with some friends who were in a French restaurant and I ordered cocoa van, you know, it was chicken legs on wine sauce with mashed potatoes in the middle. And there were four chicken legs. I would never eat four chicken legs. Why would I eat four chicken legs in a restaurant? So I did eat two, and then I stopped and I said, okay, I had enough. That’s so much protein. And I just, you know, I packed it up to go home and I’m telling the story because I was walking through the street and a woman came up to me and said I’m homeless and I’m hungry. Could you buy me? Could you buy me a meal? I did. I bought her a meal. And then before she left, I said, you know, this is the rest of my dinner from the restaurant. Would you like this? And she said, oh, yes, thank you. I could eat that tomorrow. We’re eating for two people so many times. And, you know. It really, it really hit me hard that she was willing to take my two leftover chicken legs.

Rita Black: I love it. She had a good meal. Nice French meal. That’s very cool. Yeah.

Rita Black: Well, so, so let me ask both of you and whoever would like to answer first can. Through the holidays, there’s usually stress. How are you managing that? You know, talk to me about self-care and stress, like taking breaks, making sure you’re taking care of yourself, getting away. Like if you’re with a bunch of people, if you need to take breaks from them. Like, how, what are some practices that you have in place for stress management, crowd management, you know, being busy, all of that to help yourself through the holidays?

Marilyn: I think one of the things for me, I think is to, like you said, Rita, take breaks and kind of have plans. So what will I do when there’s a break? And sometimes every room is full. But there’s always outdoors and sometimes there’s, often there’s kids playing outdoors. And so I will you know, take part in the tobogganing or go outside and run around playing duck goose or whatever’s going on, or just take a walk down the road and back. That is a good, it gets you the fresh air. It gets you the connection with nature. The places that I visit are all in the country, very country areas. And so it’s really nice to be outside in that way. So when there’s not a free room to go into, just to take a moment to collect myself, then there’s always a walk, which could be 30 minutes, 10 minutes, doesn’t have to be long. Sometimes just a little bit, just kind of get reconnected with myself.

Rita Black: Yeah. I mean, I find that that’s a huge thing when you’re, especially when you’re not in your own home and you’re at somebody’s house, and it is the holidays, and we are always with people, and if we don’t get that break, our brain becomes overstimulated. It’s so much easier to eat to just, even just to avoid people. It’s just like we’re eating or we’re in the kitchen hiding from people and we end up eating. So you’re absolutely right, like, getting out of the house, taking that walk, connecting with your body getting that fresh breath of air, but also just being outside and and away from people for that. Yeah. And you’re right, Marilyn, it only takes 10 minutes to kind of reset your brain so that then you can go back in and refocus. But if your relatives are especially high maintenance, maybe that half hour is more needed.

Rita Black: Michelle, how about you? What about you know, stress management? ’cause I know you have a very big Italian family, and I imagine that’s lots of noise and lots of love and lots of, lots and lots of –

Michele: Very hectic. You know? When I can sit and play with my grandchildren, I find it very calming and so much fun, you know, to see things through a child’s eyes. I don’t really have feel this, there’s only one person in my family, not my immediate family, who I feel like I have to get away from sometimes. Let’s put it this way. We’re not friends on Facebook, because if we were, we would probably not be friends in real life. So, you know, he’s the only one that I have to be a little wary of, but we’re handling it. I do try to schedule during the holidays. I know it sounds very indulgent, but either a manicure and a pedicure or a, oh, a massage. We’re going away this weekend, actually, and to a hotel in in Connecticut. And I am scheduling, I have this massage scheduled for Sunday morning, a Monday morning actually in the spa. So that, that’ll be a good, I love once in a while –

Marilyn: I like that idea.

Michele: I was, I hadn’t done it for a while, mainly because I was so self-conscious about my body, you know, like, is somebody gonna be grossed out when they have to massage me? It ridiculous. I mean, that’s (inaudible)

Rita Black: Yeah, no, I know. I felt the same way, Michele. I totally understand. I mean, it’s that crazy mindset that we have when we struggle with our weight. But good for you. I’m excited for you. That’ll be fun. But that’s an important point. I remember I was with my daughter and when I’m with my daughter and we’ll, we’re on a mom daughter sort of get together. We’ll always get a pedicure. And I’m usually I will get a little stressed out. Like if I’m driving or doing something in a place that isn’t where I live. I mean, isn’t it funny, I can drive in LA and feel super relaxed, but I am, but when I’m driving on foreign roads, or foreign, meaning, like just not my turf I get a little stressed. And going to for that pedicure is always just like, ugh. So grounding. And it connects me to my body too. ’cause You know, you, you’re feeling your feet.

Rita Black: So, but what, like, now when you’re with your family, do you have like a room you can escape to? Or like, how do you get away from everybody or just take some time and connect with yourself during those times? Is there anything that you’re doing?

Michele: Not possible. I mean, we, my daughter has the biggest house, so we generally go to her house on holidays, but I’m not sleeping over there, you know, it’s just for the day. And, you know, every room is filled. There’s, you know, a lot of people, there’s usually at least 25 people.

Rita Black: Oh my goodness. Alright. But you said, so you, it sounds like you play with your grandchildren though, and that kind of chills you. Yes. And Marilyn. Marilyn, you too. You play with the kids, like, it sounds like that’s kind of calming too.

Marilyn: Yeah, for sure. That’s, that can be a nice piece of it.

Rita Black: Yeah. So let’s move now. Like, thank you for the mindset piece. And, and again, everybody, as you head into your holidays, I think if you haven’t thought about that, think about those times that you can sit with yourself at the beginning of the day, like Marilyn and Michele and just kind of plan your day out. And doesn’t, you don’t have to stick to everything, but it’s just that intention and it’s like you’re being your own best friend. Oh, you know, let’s, let’s have a good day today. Let’s finish this day. And do be mindful as if you are heading out to big group gatherings, how you can take some breaks and make sure that you are, you know not getting overstimulated, which then can lead to over holiday eating. So how about food and exercise throughout the holidays? You guys, any tips or ideas for our listeners that you are going to employ over the holiday season? With regards to food in general and movement, Marilyn? Any, yeah.

Marilyn: So last year so when I go away, so I go up to my mom’s, let’s say for three or four days. And different branches of the family come up. Sometimes in rotation us sometimes we’re there all together in one day. We’re, we’re 30 some when, when we get, I think it’s, I forget what we are now. It’s like 35 or something if most of us are there. Oh, wow. Yeah. so one of the things that I did was I I got my sister-in-Law. ’cause I knew she would like to walk too. And I just kind of said to her, you know, let’s, let’s kind of plan and, and we’ll go for a walk each day. So I sort of set that into a schedule, got myself a, a walking buddy for when I was up there. And so I, I think that’s something that I’ll do again or find somebody do that with.

Marilyn: And I think that’s also something that you can do just to see like, again, to, to strengthen the relationships in, in your life and to, and to, you know, have a fun time over the holidays. Just, it doesn’t always have to be that walking buddy. Just find somebody and, you know, the you know, one of my nieces or something like that and say, let’s, you know, Hey, let’s just head out and go for a bit of a walk or do something so that I can do that. But the other thing that I do is I also, I tend to wake up very early and usually even I can beat the kids awake sometimes. Maybe not on Christmas day, but most days. And so I often will do something. Then last year I was doing yoga, so I took my yoga mat, but you wouldn’t have to, you don’t even have to do that.

Marilyn: And just kind of, and and I’m not a, certainly not an expert or anything, but just kind of some movement and just kind of get some movement in the morning. And I often try to do 20 minutes before I even actually leave the bed. I do just movement, stretching and some ab exercises and feet in the air. And I don’t even know if any of them have names or qualify as exercise, but it is movement, it is activity. So some of that in bed before I get up so that I’ve, no matter what happens, I’ve done something in that day. And then something more, a little bit more intentional or structured maybe like yoga or just some sort of fitness moves and those. So and then having a walking buddy or an activity buddy and then, you know, engaging with the kids, especially if there’s tobogganing or something going on and being part of that. So that’s kind of my plan as far as activity goes and movement. Those are my big things for there.

Rita Black: Hmm. How about you, Michele? How about you and movement over the holidays? I know you get up and bike every day on your stationary bike. Is that still in the works?

Michele: Yeah, I think, I think I’m gonna, it’s working. So I think I’m gonna continue to do that. Doesn’t mean I won’t go for a walk now and then, and I also do sometimes walking aerobics with YouTube videos. I do some of Karen Diong, I always forget how to say it, but it’s great. There’s one that’s for stress relief that I really like. It’s maybe a 15 minute one. It’s really very helpful.

Rita Black: Is that on YouTube?

Michele: Yes, it’s a free one on YouTube.

Rita Black: Oh, cool. I’ll have to check that out.

Michele: Yeah, yeah.

Rita Black: Yeah, for our listeners, I mean, I, I think what you can hear in their speaking is that exercise is just something that not only, you know, is part of their weight mastery plan, but Marilyn and Michele, obviously it’s connecting you to yourself and part of that mindfulness piece too. I love that idea of Marilyn, of having a buddy. I know in our monthly mastery group, we have that 15 day exercise challenge through the holidays, which I love. I mean, that’s the way why I have it. It’s like, okay, well if I’m in a challenge, I’m gonna be doing it.

Marilyn: That was what kept me going last year.

Rita Black: Yeah, that helps. So maybe having a challenge with other people in your family or your friend group can be nice. You can connect over you know, just texting each other. I know we have little mini text groups in our membership, but also if, and, and on some of those days that are so crazy, you know, two crazy to go and do any formal exercise. I love the idea of you guys you know, moving, like just turning on music and dancing. You know? Especially during the holiday season with kids, if you have kids around the house, they love to get in and dance. And I, my husband showed me this video of me and my daughter. I’d forgotten that we had done this. We had this dance move that we had like choreographed, it was like five years ago.

Rita Black: I looked a lot younger. I, my hair was longer, but it was so goofy. Like she and I were just being super goofy. But we looked like we thought we were professional dancers. We were doing these dance, but it was during the holidays right by our trees. So that’s also because we are indoors and I know a lot of people live in environments that aren’t always friendly to going out and walking and exercising sometimes of, so snowstorms or rainstorms are going on. But you can put on that music and move your body. So I highly recommend that.

Rita Black: What about food you guys, like, what are some holiday ideas as far as, you know, enjoying your holidays, not feeling deprived, but staying healthy? What are some ideas that you can share that you’re going to be using this holiday season? Marilyn?

Marilyn: Yeah, I think, I think moderation. ’cause you know, I know there’s gonna be pumpkin pie there, and it’s not something I have every day of the year, but I would, you know, so I will definitely have pumpkin pie. What I will not do is have pumpkin pie all day long and, you know, double helpings of it. That’s that sort of thing. So just try to rein it in and be reasonable. And I’ll probably have a small piece and I do find that satisfying you know so that, that’s one thing. I think also I think bringing food there. So for the times that aren’t the big holiday things, like, just because I’m a guest at my mom’s for a few days, I think I find it useful if I take the protein snacks that I know I like my mom has protein things, but they’re not always things that I find are great for me.

Marilyn: So I take responsibility. I, you know, take my own my cottage cheese and my Greek yogurt and the things that I know I like to, to make for myself so that I’ll have that, that sort of, the, the protein mini meals of the day sort of thing. So I be responsible for taking those. And then for things like on the bigger days, my contributions, I don’t cook. I don’t bake, so I look for things to buy. And one thing like shrimp rings, anything like that. I mean, you can eat a lot of shrimp for very few calories if you, if you like that. So, you know, that’s something that I like to contribute a lot. A lot of people do like that. And it’s one thing that, that you know, you can definitely indulge in and it, and it’s lots of protein if that’s, if that’s something that, that you like. So yeah

Rita Black: I love that idea.

Marilyn: And I know for when people are in I’m not in the workplace anymore, but I know you know, sometimes I’ll go to gatherings that are, you know, where there’s lots of foods sitting out, you know, for you to help yourself and those sort of buffet type things or informal casual sort of appetizers lying around and just, I know there’s that expectation because people are offering you things. And one of the greatest tricks I’ve heard there from one of my fellow shifters was, you know, oh wow, that looks, that looks so good. And you kind of, you get into a discussion on, oh, you know, oh, do you make that every year? Or whatever. But just gimme a, I wanna wash my hands before I take anything. And then, by the time you’ve gone and washed your hands, nobody’s there, you know, really cajoling you to, to take it. People have moved on. And so that’s kind of a way to get, to get out of that or get out of too much of that. Because I know part of, I think part of it is we feel, we talk ourselves into, we, you know, we have to do this in order to, it’s a relationship thing almost. And, and it doesn’t have to be that way. So yeah.

Rita Black: I love that tip. And I do think managing other people’s expectations of us is so critical. And I almost feel like for those of you who are listening to Marilyn, it even helps to practice what people are gonna say to you and then practicing it back before you go so you aren’t caught up in the moment, like speechless or unable to articulate it. Oh, thank you. That looks so amazing. What did you do? You know, just practice that in the car on the way there. I’m gonna wash my hands. I never heard the wash the hand thing. That’s a, that’s a good one. Do you think, like, as far as like refined carbs, do you have any things that work really well for you? Like not eating something on an empty stomach? Or does that, that not necessarily bother you? Like some people find that, like they try to avoid that so that they aren’t triggered?

Marilyn: Yeah, it is. I mean, Ido kind of take a bit of a break just because I need to make the room between, because remember I’ve had the gastric bypass surgery. So that’s, I’m a little bit of a different boat than maybe some people. So I tend to take, after I’ve eaten the meal, then I do tend to take a bit of a break before the dessert. But I, but yeah, I, and I, but I know it’s preferable to eat the eat a protein at, and I will get kind of lightheaded too if I eat too much sort of sugary carb type thing without having had a protein around the same time. So yeah.

Rita Black: That, I mean, that is helpful. Michele, how about you and food over the holidays? ’cause I know again, you’re a cook, so you do a lot of cooking. And how are you managing that for the cooks out there in our audience? Like what are some thoughts.

Michele: I’m, I always make a tray of roasted vegetables, which first of all make a beautiful presentation. Because I find that it’s always what I call the the nibbles that are out when you first get to an event like that, you know, the cook is in the kitchen making the main courses, and out on the table are the cheeses and crackers and you know, you could eat your entire day’s calories, just picking on that stuff. But like Marilyn, I like to have a tray of you know, cold shrimp with cocktail sauce and roasted vegetables and try to stay away from the high calorie. Little things that are going to set you up to fail before you even, before you even get going. I also decide on certain days that I’m not in weight loss mode today, I’m in maintenance mode today, and I will change my app, reflect that, that instead of feather calories, it adds in the extra five or 600 calories and there’s a nice large number there, and you’re working with a lot more food than you might eat on a normal day. And you’re doing it, you know, knowing that the next day you could go right back to taking those calories out again. And your week is not lost by that one day of enjoying yourself.

Rita Black: Right.

Michele: (inaudible) very comforting to me, and it’s proven to be much more accurate than I would’ve ever believed.

Rita Black: Right. Yeah. Michele’s just like mentioning the apps that you track with the, and you can set your weight goals. And I think that’s true that I think so much with dieting, we get into this like all or nothing. So we’re either at, you know, this very deprived amount of food or it’s, you know, the sky’s the limit. We’re either on or off. And what you’re talking about is a very mindful boundary, which is basically your body’s energy needs. You know, so you aren’t depositing to create a weight release, but you are not going over your body’s energy needs. And I have this great metaphor, which is like the, you know, filling a car gas tank with gas, and then the gas just fill, you know, falls all over the pavement of the gas station. That’s kind of like when we’re eating at that holiday eating where we’re just so mindless and we’re just, we’re just going over what our body needs, but our bodies do burn energy.

Rita Black: And you can find that balance for yourself where it’s not restrictive, but you can enjoy yourself. So, and Michele just uses that to get really clear, which is awesome. I have, Michele for you. I did wanna ask, like with refined carbohydrates, I know for a lot of people I’m just mentioning this because I think something happens over the holidays ’cause we have a lot more refined carbohydrates around it. So if we’re eating more of these things, it can trigger our brain, make us want more food, be thinking about food more, kind of set up what I like to call that carb zombie. Are you doing anything to, are you being mindful or do you have any tips about managing that so that you are not, you know, getting hooked into that sort of mindless carb eating cycle?

Michele: I find that I can’t eat anything sweet before lunchtime. Let’s say I can, and, you know, I could eat a piece of fruit, but I can’t, I’m not a person that could eat like a, just a muffin or just a donut for breakfast. It just throws me right off. I also can’t you know, even have one glass of wine on an empty stomach. It’s gotta be, you know, once I started eating, those are the two things that, it’s not that they trigger me to eat more, it’s that they make me feel so unwell. I just feel lightheaded. And kind of like anxious. It gives me like an anxious feeling. I don’t know if that’s a blood sugars swing. It may, may well be, but it definitely affects how I feel. Once I’ve, you know, had a protein for breakfast and a protein for lunch, then I can eat a little sweet something later in the day without it really affecting me. I also find that when I look at my metrics for the day of the different you know, the carbs and the proteins if I stay within what the app is recommending, you know, if the carbs are around 150, even 160, I’m doing fine as long as they’re healthy carbs, you know? And not a bunch of junk.

Rita Black: Yeah. Okay. Well that’s a very good metric. I mean to think about. One thing I would say is if you are, you know, to our listeners out there, a couple of things I would add to this is if I feel like I am, you know, in a setting where I’m eating more carbohydrates than I normally do, and I do get a little more thinking about food a little more and it turns on my food brain, my thinking about food brain, I will do a reset. You know? I’ll just do a couple of days of really healthy eating. And that usually brings me back to balance and, you know, I’ve been managing my weight for 28 years. I’m pretty clear when that part of my brain and body are kind of going off course. And I, you know, I just go, okay, time to do a reset.

Rita Black: And that helps me a lot to just turn down the food noise that can get a much louder over the holiday seasons one. Once again, we’re gonna talk about the environment in a moment, but just physiologically and mentally it helps me manage any food noise that may pop up because I’ve been overindulging in particular things. And another thing I practice that we talk about in the shift is zero to 10 eating. Like zero is starving, 10 is Thanksgiving stuff full, which hopefully none of us will be on coming up in the holiday season. But I, so, you know, laying on the couch twofold to move you know, really being mindful like both Marilyn and Michele have mentioned, you know, just like stopping even at after it, you know, eating.

Rita Black: And coach Karen who did talk to me a little bit about Hanukkah and her recording will be coming up after this one. You know, she said she puts her fork down and chews and, you know, it just slows down the eating process so that, especially when you’re with a bunch of people and you’re talking, it’s way, the research shows that we eat, you know, 250 or more calories when we’re eating with a bunch of other people just to stay mindful and, and connected to yourself. So I always, you know, ask myself as I’m eating, you know, what hunger number am I at? And try to stop at that five or six, you know, slow myself down and make sure that I stop, you know, especially since we’re not in control of a lot of the food we’re at over the holidays, so we might not know the ingredients or what it is, but, but if we can stop when we’ve had enough, that usually is a good indication of when we should stop.

Rita Black: The, there is like a breath that you take when you’ve had enough. The body just naturally does it. And most of us aren’t in tune with that breath, and we just keep eating past that. But there is a natural breath our body does. It’s like, wow, you know, I in the middle of a meal when we’ve, you know, the body’s physically had enough. And so maybe think about that too and just think about like finding that breath and then you can maybe negotiate with yourself to put the fork down and take a moment and make sure, you know, tune in with your body. But on that note, I would like to move on to the environment because I think a lot of people, even though it’s very obvious, our environment, especially in the holidays, is filled with stuff.

Rita Black: We don’t think about managing our environment. We just kind of end up being the victim of our environment over the holidays. So, and in the shift we talk about the environment skills a lot and one of those skills is stimulus control. And I wanted to talk about these three different controls really quickly and then just ask Marilyn and Michelle about their management system. But you know, there’s willpower and then there’s rule control, and then there’s stimulus control. Those are the three controls we have around food. Now, willpower is very limited. We, it’s a very limited resource and most people will notice that the willpower is gone around four o’clock and that’s when all of our impulse control is gone. And that’s why most people don’t struggle with breakfast or lunch, but they start struggling later in the day.

Rita Black: So willpower cannot be relied upon to get you through the holidays. Sorry, just not gonna happen. And that’s why Marilyn and Michelle have been talking about all these other mental tactics that they use. Now, another thing, and this is why I’m gonna ask you too, is do you have any inner rules? Like there’s, the second thing is called rule control, where, you know, I might have a rule where I only have one drink of alcohol at a holiday party. That’s my rule. I’ve made it for me. Nobody’s telling me to do it, but I know that works really good for me. So that’s my rule. Or my rule might be only a one refined carbohydrate per day over the holiday, like one holiday you know, treat or what have you. Because I also know that if I eat too, that again, that food noise starts to get a little louder.

Rita Black: So that might be an inner rule. And then there’s just actual stimulus control. And stimulus control is a powerful tool because if it isn’t in your environment or if it isn’t in your eyesight chances are you’re not gonna think about it. Every time you walk by that tray of peppermint bark, you have to have a conversation with it, you know, and that wears you down over time, right? Oh, you know, no, I’m not gonna have the peppermint bark this time. No, I’m not gonna have the peppermint bark this time. And then, you know, you get worn down the peppermint bark talks to you, come on, just have a piece, you know, and then we’re in the peppermint bark.

Rita Black: So those were the three different controls. Marilyn, how about you? Like, how are you a managing your environment? I know your home environment and then when you go to your mom’s, ’cause that sounds like a whole different ballpark.

Marilyn: Yeah. So I mean, I won’t bring anything special into the house, into my, into my home over Christmas necessarily. In fact, I actually, I bought some turtles recently. Some pa turtle packages were on sale, and I thought, oh, this would be good, good gifts to take to people’s homes and stuff like that. So I I, I gave one away when I visited friends on the weekend. But and I had another couple and we drove home and when we were unpacking the car, I thought, I’m gonna leave those other gift boxes in the car, because if I take them up to our apartment, I will be thinking you know what? It won’t, maybe we should have one or two, or whatever.

Marilyn: So that was one strategy, just leaving the things where they, they are not in my environment. And then they will be in the car when I drive to someone’s home to take them to them, whatever. Then a couple of rules I have, they’ve really become part of who I am, and they are everyday rules. But I think their, they’re, they’re especially important around the holidays. And that is a strategy when I go through, you know, when you walk the gauntlet, you’re, you’re checking out at Walmart or winners or TJ Maxx or whatever it is, you have to walk by so many candy and special treats and holiday you know coffees or hot chocolate mixes, that sort of thing. So, but I am, I’m not a person who buys anything from those impulse lines. That’s something that I’ve, that I’ve, that I’ve adopted in my weight maintenance.

Marilyn: And the other thing for me is if I’m on a road trip and there’s a stop at a gas station, that’s another thing. And that I just don’t buy the chocolate bars type of thing. There is one I know of one healthy snack there that I will get if I have to, but that’s something that I, that I think of and I know the most healthy, fast food place to stop at as well. So I’ve, I’ve got all that. And as far as the stimulus control, when I’m somewhere where there’s lots of things around, I will make a habit of getting things off the counter. Even it’s not my, even if it’s not my home, get things off the counter and into the, and into the cupboard where I don’t see them. Yes. And I don’t have to have, have that conversation every time I pass by, because you’re right, willpower is a time-limited strategy. At some point it’s gonna give out on you. So. Yeah.

Rita Black: Yeah. And then someday, like I feel like we have a willpower up until about the 17th of December, and then the stimulus of the holiday, and then it’s all gone until probably about January 3rd, you know, like. because we’re so overstimulated, our brains are so overstimulated. And that’s why we do need that, like those tools that you both were talking about earlier, about connecting to ourselves each day, because that, at least that think through of your day, is your best bet of harnessing willpower later in the day.

Rita Black: Michele, how about you? How do you manage your environment during, or, you know, in general, but also how are you planning to manage it over the holidays?

Michele: Well I’m a numbers person. So on a regular day like today I leave myself, you know, a hundred to 150 calories for a treat. At the end of the day, something with no nutritional value, that just makes me feel happy, either it’s something ice cream usually like a little ice cream sandwich is 140 calories, right? A little Trader Joe of finger size ice cream cone is 90 calories. And I like those very much. I have one almost every night. The holidays are a different story because, you know, I’m giving myself a cushion, a maintenance cushion. So let’s say that cushion is 500 calories. Now, coincidentally or not, the average dessert is probably about 500 calories if you had an entire dessert, right? So my rule for myself on Thanksgiving or Christmas or whatever, is, okay, I am going over tonight over what I would normally eat, but even if I taste four or five desserts, right? In total, they’re not going to comprise more than one full serving. So that means a couple of bites each, not not a whole piece of pumpkin pie and a whole piece of apple pie, which is what I used to do in the past. It’s what everyone else is doing too. And then complaining that they, you know, that they’re stuck. So I also have a rule that five fruits and vegetables, no matter what, you know, whether it’s (inaudible) or a regular day, five fruits and vegetables, just because we should all be doing that. And of course, you know, it makes you more full, so you don’t, you’re not as vulnerable. And definitely not, you know, on a holiday, you can’t help it. The food is out, you know, it’s a beautiful display of food. But when you’re home, put that stuff away, you know, even if there’s a box of crackers on the counter room, so much more likely to take one than to go looking in the cabinet to see where they are. We’re very visual people.

Rita Black: Absolutely. And they, when they’re out on the counter, I know it’s so easy over the holiday season for, you know, us to get those little things from neighbors, and then we just shove it on the counter ’cause we don’t know where else to put it. And then the next thing, and then the next thing, and then before you know it, you have a whole counter full of food calling your name. Something you mentioned, Michele, that I wanted to mention to our listeners if you’ve been listening to me for a while, you know about the three bite rule. But the three bite rule is a really great inner rule where you absolutely, you have those three bites of the dessert or the decadent food, and that’s really enough for our, typically our mouth experience goes from 90% down to 20% within three bites.

Rita Black: So after those three bites, often we go a little mindless and aren’t really focused on the taste or the experience of the food. Some foods, you know, we can keep going and still experience it, but what Mihelle was talking about is kind of like that three bites is of something really decadent and it’s probably, you know, a hundred calories or something, but it’s just that you get that experience without having to eat the whole thing. And often if you really tune in when you eat the whole thing, you aren’t very hard to tune in. I mean, when I work with smokers, you know, they experience like the first couple puffs of a cigarette, but the rest is very mindless. And, and it’s interesting when you’re eating food too, it can, it can get mindless really quickly. So if you allow yourself those of wonderful few bites and, and totally, you know, experience it, then usually you’re happy to move on, especially if you’ve fed yourself well and, and nourished yourself.

Rita Black: Now the other thing I wanted to ask you guys about, the last thing was support. How do you get support for your, your, I mean, how are you giving or getting support over the holiday season? Marilyn, you said you have those people that you maybe walk with and such.

Marilyn: Yeah, I I often talk about it with people that I walk with for sure. My husband happens to be a great support, and if if I want him to help with me with something, I will ask him and he will deliver on that. Whether it’s making something in a certain way or reminding me about something, he’s very good at that. And also I’ve, you know I do message back and forth with other, another, you know, other person who has like, goals of me in terms of, of weight weight, lifestyle, you know, life weight management, et cetera. So that’s, that’s also a little piece that I’m, that I’ve been adding recently. And I think that’ll be useful over the holidays, too.

Rita Black: Oh, very nice. How about you, Michele?

Michele: Just about everyone in my orbit has been extremely supportive. My kids have been very supportive. My husband is absolutely the best. He needed to lose some weight too, and he has in fact lost about 25 pounds. We don’t have the junk food in the house anymore, and he needed to lose weight. He wants to lose a few more. I laugh now because he gets on the scale every morning, which he never did before. And tells me the number, you know, up to the decimal point. And two mornings ago I saw him, my son brought home bagels, and I watched in other ion as my husband cut the bagel and pulled out the inside of it. I have never seen him do that before, ever. He’s so much more conscious. He ask me how many calories are in something. It’s really great. My friends have four very close female friends that I actually went to high school with, and we meet every month in the city for dinner. They’re all very thin, and they have just been, you know, one of them said to me the other day, oh my God, look at that tiny waist. I can’t believe it. You look great. And they’ve been doing the three bite rule forever. You know, we order one dessert for four people, and everyone takes a couple of bites. It’s, it’s nothing new to them. And, you know, they leave food on their plate and they’re not dieting. This is how people behave, you know, when they’re, when they’re conscious.

Rita Black: Right. Very cool. I’m glad you have support both of you. I think those of you who don’t feel like you’re supported try your best to get support, maybe from people that aren’t as obvious as they could be. If they aren’t in your household, maybe your friends, you can talk to them or text them throughout the holidays and get a support line going on. Marilyn, I know you mentioned something about dealing with those people who kind of hover over you and I, I guess they’re not necessarily saboteurs that that, but do you have any saboteurs in your orbit, Marilyn, and, and do you have any tips for managing those, those people who, I mean, I love that tip you already had. Go wash your hands, make a big noise, you know, circle back. That’s a good one. Or Michele, you guys have any other, you know, management?

Michele: One thing, something actually happened today. My sister came by and she came in with a bakery box. And I said, what’s that? There’s a new place that opened, it’s called Paris Baguette, I believe it’s a chain.

Rita Black: Oh my Gosh. There’s one, two blocks away from me. It’s, and they’ve got like a baguettes with sticky rice in the middle of them.

Speaker 3: Right. There were two donuts, cream donut some kind of a glazed donut. And she said, oh, I got this one for you. It’s a croissant with Brie in it. And I said, Monica, I’m trying to lose weight. I’m, I’m not going to eat that. He said, oh, you lost so much weight, you can have it. And I said, I really don’t want it. So, you know, someone else ate the cream donut, I’m sure right now my son is eating the other donut and the little croissant with the breeze going in the freezer. I mean, I, I just can’t throw it out. I mean, he told me those three pieces were $16 together. Is that crazy?

Rita Black: Yeah.

Michele: To make a whole meal for, but I was, I was a little annoyed with her. I really was like, what are you, what are you doing this?

Rita Black: You know, people forget, I think you have to remind them and they do see you. I mean, when you release 60 pounds, you look so small to them. You know, the, I’ve had people who have released significant amounts of weight, but they still have weight to release. But people will say, stop dieting or stop losing weight. You look sick. But, you know, they still are, if you, their BMI is still in the overweight range. So people get their, they see you get smaller, and they worry too. Sometimes they are concerned because their primal mind is seeing you shrink. And, you know, we’re like all pack animals and we’re like, oh my goodness, something’s happening. But you might get that a lot, Michele, this year, because you, I mean, both of you, because you’ve released significant amounts of weight and people might be like, oh, you’ve lost so much weight. You know, so you might as well enjoy yourself. Marilyn, have you gotten some of that? Or, or not so much?

Marilyn: No, but I can, I can see that tendency de definitely that, you know, people kind of see, oh, you know, like, you’ve been so successful. What’s wrong with living it up? You know, and that, that sort of thing. But no, I haven’t, not in that way. My tendency really more is to, more often I get conversations about how I’ve, how I’ve got where I am and how I manage to stay there and, you know, what are the, what are the keys to your success and those sorts of things. And I love, I love talking about the strategies that have worked for me or things that worked at one time that I’ve revamped or revised to make them continue to work for me now. Because I feel it’s like, it’s, it’s an ongoing process. What worked for me a year ago is not exactly the same thing that will, that may work for me now in certain areas. So you have to be ready to revise that. So I love talking about it with people. And yeah, lots of my friends ask me about that. Some, most with the intent that they would like to do part of it themselves, or they’re figuring out what they want to do or something like that. Yeah.

Rita Black: And that’s a really important point that you make, which is that other people, when you release weight and you’re on a powerful journey like you both are, that it’s not like you’re on a diet, but you’re really making changes in yourself and changing yourself from the inside out. People look, watch you and you know, you are helping them make that decision, whether they voice it or not. They’re, you’re modeling amazing behavior for them. And because people, everybody who goes through the holidays, I mean, unless they are like, have always managed their weight, never had a problem, struggles. And so even though they might, you might see them eating and looking like they’re enjoying themselves, they’re going to, a lot of them are gonna go home and feel bad and feel like, why did I do that? Why did I eat drink too much?

Rita Black: Why did I eat too much? And you know, they’re looking at you like, wow, I wish, I wish I could manage things like they do. They aren’t, you know, like, I know Michelle, you were saying, like, you sometimes look at those people and go like, look, they’re ordering two muffins, but you also know they’re, they’re, they’re ordering two muffins and going home and filling, like they’re in a carb coma. So, you know, you guys are fearless leaders leading, you know, yourself, but also others through holidays, even if they aren’t voicing that they’re following you. And, and for you listeners out there as well, you know, really it, I think identity has so much to do. I always talk about identity, and I think of yourself as a powerful, healthy person leading yourself through the holidays, you know, rather than trying to survive the holidays and this weight struggler trying to survive.

Rita Black: It’s like, no, you are, you are powerful. You, you can lead yourself one day at a time, just like Marilyn and Michelle have laid out so many great strategies for you. And, and also touching base with that gratitude and remembering the meaning of the holidays, like Marilyn was saying earlier. And, and you can tell Michelle with her family, it’s like, it’s the people in your life and really going to those holiday events, really looking forward to the connecting with others rather than connecting with a bunch of food. You know?

Rita Black: So I wanna thank both of you, Marilyn.

Marilyn: Yeah. And it’s okay to be imperfect too. I just wanna say that it’s not, you know, yes, I know we’ve come up with all the great, you know, strategies and so forth, but yeah, it’s not, you know, it’s, I, for me, it’s not a hundred percent. You know, there’s times when things don’t work and I have to revise, or, or I just, I just don’t manage to follow through with what I plan, but I’m okay with being imperfect. It’s, it’s a journey and I carry on. So if somebody’s listening out there is thinking, oh, I could never, I could never do that every time, or be that perfect. That’s okay. You don’t have to be perfect.

Rita Black: Yeah. Right. It ain’t about perfection. And Michele, do you have any words for anybody you know out there that, you know, last words?

Michele: You can do this, but that’s my words for people. A year ago, if, you know, you had told me I would’ve been down almost 60 pounds this, this year, I would’ve been very skeptical. I just didn’t think it was possible. My wish was to quote unquote lose a few pounds. As we’ve always said over the years, we, we need to lose a few pounds. Well, it’s a lot more than a few pounds. And I’m as surprised as anyone, and it hasn’t really felt unnatural or difficult. It hasn’t felt difficult, which is really amazing. There’s so much support and comradery in the group and a different way. My, my thinking has gone the 68 years of struggle. I can’t believe it because I’ve been overweight since I’m a child.

Rita Black: Yeah, no, it’s, and it is like, for both of you, thank you for coming on today, but it’s also just, I’m so proud to see the journeys, the powerful journeys you both have been on, and, and when you can see and hear in their, both of their speakings, like when you show up for yourself with your powerful mind, there’s nothing you can’t accomplish. So believe in yourself this holiday season. Take good care of yourself, stay safe, but, you know, be kind to yourself and compassionate and have a wonderful holiday season.

Rita Black: Thank you Marilyn and Michelle for being with us today.

Rita Black: Hey, Karen, thank you so much for coming on and talking to us about Hanukkah and how to have a healthy Hanukkah over the holiday season.

Karen: My pleasure.

Rita Black: So for our listeners who are not aware of the tradition of Hanukkah, just tell us a little bit about the Hanukkah, the season it’s called the, the Holiday of Light, right?

Karen: Festival of Light. Yes. Thank you. It is it, it takes place over eight nights. And for some reason, some people think that children get eight nights of presents and they don’t, or at least not in my household. Growing up, I got one present, and then whatever change was in my father’s pockets the next night. So it is a festival. It’s a commemorating a, a battle. Oh, several actually. The, there was a period of time where the Greeks were the power in the, the region of the Middle East. And they were trying to hellenized everybody who didn’t believe their own religion. And there, the Jews said, heck no, and we’re not going to put up with this. And there were lots of battles, and there’s Judah Maccabee and the whole family, and there was a desecration of the temple with, I don’t remember exactly how they did it, but, and there was, they had to, the Maccabees or theJews were needed oil to re consecrate, and they just had a little bit. And instead of burning for one night, which was the amount of oil they thought they had, the miracle was that it burned for eight nights. As far as Judaism in general, it’s not a particularly significant holiday, unlike the High Holy Days, which are earlier in the year, but it’s got some heavy competition for children in December. So it’s gotten bigger and bigger.

Rita Black: Right. It’s become the the winter holiday focus. Okay. Right. So, so tell me, thank you for that explanation. So tell me, traditionally or or perennially, what is the biggest challenge you know, food-wise and health-wise as you go in and, you know, as one goes into the, the Hanukkah season, you know, what are the biggest challenges?

Speaker 4: Well, there’s one particular food tradition that comes out of this whole thing with oil. And that is one eats food that has been fried in oil. For most people, that means potato pancakes, or the word in, I dunno if it’s Hebrew or Yiddish, is latkes, L-A-T-K-E-S. But it’s also donuts. And there’s another like fried donuts. And the word for all of this food is, is ot. So the fried foods for Hanukkah and our family my grandmother, my mother, my sister has now taken on the mantle of the the, the lakas fryer. I can do it, but I hate the way it makes my house smell. So we always have potato pancakes, and they’re generally served with sour cream and or apple sauce, whichever you prefer. I like the sour cream. And our meal is generally I make a brisket, and every year I say, does anyone want anything else? No. Make your brisket. So I have to make my brisket. Sometimes there’s moa all soup, that none of those things are traditional. The only thing that is the tradition is the fried food. And I tried to eat as little of that as possible. So how do I approach this food? Oh, and then someone always brings dessert, but I don’t eat dessert.

Rita Black: Do you guys get together eight nights, or is it traditionally just one big family feast that you would sit down to? Okay.

Karen: And that is, but again, that’s just my family. Not everybody does it that way. Somebody, some people just have a small gathering and, and that’s it. You know? You, the thing that everyone does is they light their candles every night to sign, you know, to signify the oil. And some people actually have oil lamps, but ours are just candles.

Rita Black: . Right. But out in the zeitgeist, in your community in the Jewish community, would you say that having, like aside from this, like probably most families would have one meal or one traditional meal, and would there be food hovering around the house, like traditional holiday food that would be a challenge, otherwise, leftover, leftover leftover leftovers, right. Yeah. Yeah.

Karen: And and we do, our family, you know, our family gets together as a group. Thanksgiving at this year, it’s at my niece’s house, and then Hanukkah, and there are some family members who will go off because of the faith of other family members to celebrate Christmas. But not my immediate family. I mean, not my husband and me, I should say my, my sons with their wives families. But for me, what I do it’s the same thing as, as Thanksgiving. We all have little cont we come with little containers to avoid having a multitude of the host having too much leftovers.

Rita Black: Okay.

Karen: So, but the way I approached a holiday meal, and it doesn’t matter which one it is, or it could be any gathering meal is the same way. Whether it’s Hanukkah, whether it’s a dinner party at a friend’s house, it’s the same thing. What is my energy allowance for the day or the week planning ahead? It’s, can I do a little bit more exercise this week, not just to burn a few more calories, but to keep my mind when I exercise regularly, my mind is in a good shift place for everything, for food, for alcohol, for snacking. It’s just part of the whole thing. For me, exercise is a mood booster, and it just keeps me on a good track. And I think I mentioned to you, I’d been traveling recently and I was doing a lot of walking, but it was hard to do my general routines just because of lack of space. And then I came home and I was so jet lagged, and I, it stresses from other things about that holiday that I’m just getting back into my exercise routine yesterday, today I’ve got another class when we finish up right now. So those are the things that I do to sort of bubble wrap myself in a way from the onslaught of the food and everything else that goes with it. And again, it’s not just the holiday meals, but then people, neighbors bringing over holiday gifts and people are baking and I always wanna say thank you, but no, but I just hand it off to my husband, and

Rita Black: And he takes care of it for you.

Karen: Right? Yeah. Well, he’s a foot taller than I am. He’s got a lot more latitude or longitude.

Rita Black: I love it. So well, that sounds really good. Now, like for the fried foods, then you are just you’re taking three bites or you’re doing a laka or two and you’re, I’ll, you know, put the magic circle around it.

Karen: I’ll take a, you know, one, a one or two small ones, and just a little bit of, so cream on top of course. And it’s mostly, I’ll mostly be having vegetables and the the brisket, the protein

Rita Black: Yeah. Yeah. So you are living your life and living your holidays. You aren’t feeling deprived necessarily. You know? You’re thriving through the Hanukkah holiday and all of these situations.

Karen: Yeah. And, and as you know, we’ve discussed this before, some of it is just so automatic at this point. It’s,that, sorry for the digging on my computer. Let me –

Rita Black: That’s okay.

Karen: It’s just automatic.

Rita Black: Yeah. I know you’ve been doing this a number of your, so it is, it’s not what you do, it’s who you are, Karen.

Karen: Okay. that’s one way of putting it. I mean, you know, it’s, I’m far from perfect, but, but no, you can see in your speaking, you’re very mindful. You, and this mindfulness isn’t, is automatic mindfulness, meaning you’re, you are having to pay attention to it. You are paying attention to it, but it, it doesn’t feel it, it’s part of who you are to think it through and to think through the holiday and to think through what you’re doing. It’s rare to get through a holiday meal where I think, oh my God, I’m so full. I just don’t do that anymore. It’s, I’ve had enough to eat. I can just stop.

Rita Black: Do you have any any counseling on that? Like when you’re, you know, because when you’re sitting down with a bunch of people who are your family and you’re conversing, a lot of times it’s really hard to know, oh, I’ve had enough. You know, because other people are getting seconds. Other people are overeating, I think. So how do you, like, as you go into the meal, like stay present or is it just something over the years that you’ve just gotten used to that just enough point and just have learned to stop?

Karen: For me, some of it is not even a mindset. It’s because I’ve gotten used to eating a little bit less, you know, measure measuring my portions. It’s that I don’t want more because I would make myself, I just can’t fit anything else. Right.

Rita Black: Yeah.

Karen: But again, it’s not because I’m stuffed. I don’t mean it that way. It’s, I don’t want to make myself uncomfortable.

Rita Black: Yes. Yeah. Because you’re tuned in. I mean, you, that’s, I think that’s the distinction is over time when you are more mindful, you are also showing up for yourself because you’re saying, well, why would I eat more? ’cause then I’m gonna feel gross and full and I don’t wanna do that to myself.

Karen: Right. And this, and I can always have more of this tomorrow because there are leftovers.

Rita Black: There are eight days of leftovers. I love it. Well, that is any final holiday words for our audience?

Karen: You don’t need to feel deprived during the holidays. You can enjoy yourself. You can eat good food. Just not too much of it.

Rita Black: Very good, wise, wise words. Well, Karen, have a wonderful holiday season with your family and I hope you enjoy your lot. ’cause I, I have a friend who has a la Cap Palooza every year, and he makes not just the regular traditional lakas, he makes curried lakas and zucchini lakas and just like, probably

Karen: Does he do sweet potato?

Rita Black: He does sweet potato. He does. So it’s like a, a smorgasbord of different lakas. And so yeah, that’s laca palooza. So anyway,

Karen: I’m sorry, smorgasbord of lakas. You’ve sort of like, you’ve moved Denmark into

Rita Black: I’m sorry. I know you’re just in Norway, so you’re like, that is a very clear, okay. Yes. A a plethora, a a feast of different types of things.

Karen: Yes. But, you know, potato pancakes are not just you know, traditional Jewish cooking because it’s basically wherever the Jewish population has lived. So Russia has its version. Poland has its version. Yes. Germany, it’s, it’s all, it’s, yes.

Rita Black: Yes. But the fried potato has a great tradition amongst all human cultures. So, well, thank you for your wisdom. And again, have a wonderful holiday season.

Karen: And same to you and yours.

Rita Black: Thank you Michelle and Marilyn, and Coach Karen. I hope you found their advice helpful. And please, please, please grab your sugar hypnosis session from the show notes if you haven’t already. And for goodness sake, you better not pout. You better not cry, you better not, not show up for yourself this holiday season. And I’m telling you why, then thinking we’ll be back here next week. And remember that the key and the probably the only key to unlocking the door of the weight struggle is inside you. So keep listening and find it. And I will be back with you next week to really dive into the holidays.

Rita Black: You wanna dive deeper into the mindset of long-term weight release. Head on over to www.shiftweightmastery.com. That’s www.shiftweightmastery.com, where you’ll find numerous tools and resources to help you unlock your mind for permanent weight release tips, strategies, and more. And be sure to check the show notes to learn more about my book From Fat to Thin Thinking. Unlock Your Mind for Permanent Weight Loss.